Fish Nutrition 101

[RD.]

Val --- Although kelp & spirulina have their place in a fish food, neither one should be at the top of the ingredients list. (for reasons already mentioned in the NLS thread) Africans do not get their protein from veggies.

Edited September 19, 2005 by RD.

[Vallisneria]

OK thanks, since talking with you about it(in the summer i believe) i stopped feeding my adults omega one. I now just feed it to my fry, and once the container is finished probably won't be getting more. I have found the NLS to be way better. PLus omega one is fairly expensive

[punman]

RD- Just wondered what you thought of OSI Spirulina Pellets:42% Protein, 4% fat. Contains Fish Meal, Wheat Flour, Spirulina, Shrimp Meal, Fish Protein Concentrate, Fish Oil, Lecithin, Vitamin A Palmitate, DL-á-Tocopherol Acetate, D-Activated Animal Sterol, Thiamine Mononitrate, Choline Chloride, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate, Calcium d-Pantothenate, Inositol, Niacinamide, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Menadione Sodium Bisulfate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 supplement, Ethoxyquin (as an antioxidant).

Think that is too much protein?

[RD.]

OSI makes a decent product, and no, I don't think that's 'too much' protein, as long as one doesn't overfeed. I know that a lot Tropheus breeders use OSI Spirulina flakes, and seem to have good success with them. I think the biggest issue with protien levels is being careful with how much you feed, and of course, it depends on how much of the protein is actually being utilized by the fish. A carnivore could probably easily handle 50% crude protein & 12% crude fat, if it only ate one decent sized meal every 2-3 days. Problem is, most of us feed our fish every day, some 2-3 times a day, and some people tend to overfeed period.

Fish in the wild are lean mean fighting machines, and that's how I like to see them in aquariums as well. There's nothing uglier (and sadder looking) than a big round sausage shaped African cichlid.

If you ask Kyle what the average sized peacock is in Lake Malawi, he'll tell you 4", not 6-8" like many of the tank raised specimens that you see. This usually boils down to foods that are high in protein, highly digestible, and fish that are fed too much of this type of food.

[RD.]

The following paper was sent to me & although you need a subscription to read the entire study, the link provides a brief abstract, and I've added a bit more detail below.

http://afs.allenpress.com/afsonline/?reque...ssue=4&page=285

Keep in mind that the info in this report was relating to juvenile African cichlids, that were only 4 weeks old at the start of this 12 week feed trial.

Even with very young fish, who require higher levels of both protein as well as fat, the higher lipid (fat) content found in the trout pellet diet (TP) caused these young fish to develop fatty livers, within a very short period of time.

Also, from this report;

Fatty infiltration of the liver has also been designated "the most common metabolic disturbance and most frequent cause of death in aquarium fish"

Now imagine what happens to the liver of an adult African cichlid when fed diets that contain excessive amounts of lipids. The H. ahli (s. fryeri) used in this study faired much better being a carnivore, but it still showed a lipid accumulation in the hepatocytes. (<50%) The P. socolofi had extensive lipid accumulation when fed this TP diet.

With prolonged feeding of a high-energy, lipid rich diet, degenerative changes of the liver and death can occur unless the diet is corrected.

I know I've been harping about this for some time, but perhaps when people read it first hand from a study performed by the Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences University of Florida, they'll understand why I never recommend using some of these various fish foods that are over 9% in crude fat.

They also compared the nutritional aspects between pellets and flakes, with pellets being more nutrient dense, and more stable in water.

Hope that helps.

[vantgE]

How about this stuff

"Sera granugreen" "granulated fish food for algae rock-grazeing fish"

"sera granugreen-slowsinking green granulated food-especially developed for fish, such as Lake Malawi and Lake Tangyka cichlids that graze on algae rocks and feed on small organisms that live in them. The high content of carotene-rich spirulina and artemia shrimps enhances the splendid color of these impressive ornamental fish. The herbal protien with high content of digestable wheat germ and roughage in sera granugreen are processed optimally to ensure healthy growth. sera granugreen also contains natural minerals, trace elements, a well-balanced multivitamin complex and stabilized vitamon c to enhance fish vitality and their resistance to deseases."

Fish protien, fish products, wheat germ, grain products, spirulina, spinach, herbs vitamins, colorants

Nutrition

Crude protien 38.5%, Crude Fat 6.1%, Crude Fibre 3.9%, Crude ash 9.5%

[rahim101]

I use Sera Flora flake for my tropheus and they love it!!!!!

[RD.]

What a fish 'loves' has nothing to do with the quality of a fish food.

Fish protien, fish products, wheat germ, grain products, spirulina, spinach, herbs vitamins, colorants

If that's the best they can provide for an ingredients listing, then I would pass on it. The listing is far too vague, and I certainly don't see anything impressive in the listing.

People are funny, I've gone to great lengths (and personal cost) to bring THE best staple commercial diet available (in the world) up into Canada & you still want to look for alternatives? I don't get it, but carry on ........

Edited September 19, 2005 by RD.

[vantgE]

Didn't mean to offend you RD, thought this was the point of the thread and noticed it had similar nutrition to NLS, I had originally bought it bercause the ingredients list was so short but noticed the vagueness of it as well after compareing to a wardley ingredients list, there are also added vitamins listed but didn't post it

[RD.]

I wasn't offended at all, just bewildered I guess?

Seriously, if someone can show me a product that is made up of higher quality raw ingredients than NLS, I'll be the first one in line to buy it.

How does one compare this:

Fish protien, fish products, wheat germ, grain products, spirulina, spinach, herbs vitamins, colorants

To this:

Krill, Herring, Wheat Flour, Amino Acids, Algae Meal, Soybean Isolate, Fish Oil, Beta Carotene, Spirulina, Garlic, Vitamin A Acetate, D-Activated Animal- Sterol (D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Folic Acid, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine, Biotin.

Fish protein, fish products, grain products, and herbs, could be just about anything?

About the only thing that impressed me with the Sera company, is they too realize that diets high in fat cause fatty liver disease, and premature death in fish. They even mention this on their website.

[vantgE]

I thank you again for all the info just had a discussion on another forum about fish nutrition and found myself almost quoteing all of this so, ended up posting your site in the conversation out of thanks

:bow:

[RD.]

No problem, glad to help.

Edited September 2, 2005 by RD.

[HOSStile]

Neil I am asking you this on the forum rather than pming you in case other people have the same question. As you know I just got some NLS, thanks again Tom, and it says the standard thing about feeding twice a day all that fish can eat in a minute and a half. Prior to this I have been feeding all my fish Tetra Tropical crisps. They say 3 times a day what the fish will eat in 3 minutes. Now they (TetraMin) say that you should feed 1 tropical crisp for every 1 inch of fish. Now another statement has been made that a fish's stomach is around the same size as their eyes. My question is because 1mm NLS is so much smaller than a tropical crisp should a NLS pellet be based on 1 per inch of fish 2 per inch whatever. As African Fever and you have both said we generally overfeed our fish, and I think my fish could eat an awlful lot of NLS in 90 seconds. Any recommendations that you or others could give the rest of us would be helpful and surely appreciated. PS all my fish love NLS with the exception of my 6 inch male nyerei who still sits and waits for the flakes to drift down. Regards :thumbs: Harold

[RD.]

Harold - I tend to feed my fish twice a day until they are mature, with all food gone in under 30 seconds. Once they mature, same routine, but I only feed once a day. (in the early PM)

If you have fish that take longer to eat the pellets (such as larger Haps that eat the Large Fish 3 mm formula) then just space the feeding out a little more so they have time to digest each pellet they take in.

I consider NLS a super premium fish food, and a little goes a long ways, even though the pellets are very small.

I've yet to have a fish turn skinny on me, but at the same time I own no fat fish.

[HOSStile]

Thanks for the advice. I probably have been feeding too much. Lord knows I don't want the fish as fat as I am. My wife has plumped me up plenty with Asian cooking, fattening me up for the insurance. Just Kidding Dear. :chair: Thanks Neil