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williewonka

Possible addition to the Buy-Sell Rules

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"Buyer Rules:

•No posts questioning the value of a person's for sale post will be tolerated. If you do not want to buy it, close the thread and keep your comments to yourself. Violators will be suspended. All offers should be handled through the boards PM system.

•Do not make an offer on any item unless you intend to follow through with the sale.

•Do not post if not interested in the sale. Needless remarks such as, "Wow, good deal", "Somebody should really jump on this", "Good luck with the sale", are non-profitable deal for any seller and would be considered as postwhoring in the Classifieds.

All rules not followed may result in a warning from administration and buy/sell privileges may be revoked."

This is a quote taken from the rules for Piranha Fury.

Although they are all good, the one I'm suggesting most is the first one. I've noticed a lot of posts where the asking price of a product was questioned in a post ( some in not a very polite manner). If someone thinks his xbox or nintendo wii is worth twice what he paid for it... great... if you don't agree... don't buy it. If someone thinks his breeding pair of fish is worth more what you do... don't buy it. We have Mods here to gently remind people if they are way out in left field concerning something.

I've seen lots of things posted on here that I thought were totally overpriced. By the speed with which some of them sold, I was obviously proved wrong.

On a different although similar note... In response to your Buy and sell Reminder... Nick, I realize it must be a pain to have to read through all of the posts to see if they should be archived or not. Why not just make it a rule that you have to put SOLD in the title of the thread and then repost it. That way you would only have to read the ones that you really want to.

Fred

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•Do not post if not interested in the sale. Needless remarks such as, "Wow, good deal", "Somebody should really jump on this", "Good luck with the sale", are non-profitable deal for any seller and would be considered as postwhoring in the Classifieds.

Sound good Fred :thumbs: .......But sometimes this comment is used for a free bump to the seller...well because it is a good deal that the bumper cannot buy or use

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I definitely agree with the first idea, the last one I don't agree with (same reason why as murminator), the second idea not sure as sometimes people have changes in circumstances

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This was posted on the 17th of Dec. but I don't think much attention was paid to it.

http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=16748

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"Buyer Rules:

•No posts questioning the value of a person's for sale post will be tolerated. If you do not want to buy it, close the thread and keep your comments to yourself. Violators will be suspended. All offers should be handled through the boards PM system.

All rules not followed may result in a warning from administration and buy/sell privileges may be revoked."

Although they are all good, the one I'm suggesting most is the first one. I've noticed a lot of posts where the asking price of a product was questioned in a post ( some in not a very polite manner). If someone thinks his xbox or nintendo wii is worth twice what he paid for it... great... if you don't agree... don't buy it. If someone thinks his breeding pair of fish is worth more what you do... don't buy it. We have Mods here to gently remind people if they are way out in left field concerning something.

I've seen lots of things posted on here that I thought were totally overpriced. By the speed with which some of them sold, I was obviously proved wrong.

- Please do not sabotage/hijack a thread (If you have something to sell, start your own thread)

- Nothing illegal, including but not limited to: drugs or paraphernalia; pornographic material; CITES I animals; pyramid schemes.

These rules are the result of several good years marred with the occasional bad mistake. They cover a lot of basic common sense, but it was an uncommonly bad bit of sense that led to each and every one of them. There will be occasional exceptions from time to time... however it is strongly suggested you contact an admin prior to trying to be an exception. Your membership in this forum is depending on it.

Hints for selling something faster:

- Be fair with your asking price (if you are unsure, search the Archives or PM an Admin/Mod)

I can understand your wish to be able to ask whatever price you want for your fish. That's the nature of capitalism. This however is a community forum of hobbyists and I think there needs to be some ethical oversight when allowing members to sell their goods here. If you've paid a certain amount for a fish or breeding group, have made money from posessing them and selling their offspring, is it ethical to ask for a higher value than what you paid for those fish? Should the next owner pay you for the potential profit they might receive from owning these fish with no guarantee that they will get a return on their investment?

If you're going to make additions to the buy/sell rules, you should add a section on ethical principles. We're hobbyists, not commercial resellers. The point of this forum is to encourage people to be active in the hobby and to propagate different species kept in captivity. Allowing people to ask exorbitant amounts for fish will only lead to scarcity of those species as the higher prices will deter buyers from purchasing them and continuing their propagation. Stores treat these fish as commodities, I don't think we should be doing the same.

All that being said, if we are a community, are we all to remain silent and let one unsuspecting member of this community purchase items on this site for prices that seem too high? Perhaps all posts in the buy/sell section should have to be reviewed by an admin/moderator before they are published in the forum. This is of course, more work for the admins but it gives them a chance to perform an ethical review as well as a chance to request an edit of location details & price before the posts go public. This woud alleviate issues of public commentary/post-whoring/hijacking. The rest of the buy/sell process could be handled completely through the private message system.

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I think to the point of breeding groups. Once they are proven and are known to produce babies.

Every person on this site does ask more for them and people are willing to pay.

It's is easier for everyone to purchase 2 fish for a cost then to purchase 6-8 of a species and raise them up to find out you got all males or females.

That's the way it works.

I would always be willing to pay for more for a proven pair.

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I think to the point of breeding groups. Once they are proven and are known to produce babies.

Every person on this site does ask more for them and people are willing to pay.

It's is easier for everyone to purchase 2 fish for a cost then to purchase 6-8 of a species and raise them up to find out you got all males or females.

That's the way it works.

I would always be willing to pay for more for a proven pair.

Of course a proven pair is worth more than just two fish but how much more? Is it worth twice the cost of two fish? Three times? Four times? Should the buyer be required to pay the seller for two or three potential generations of offspring? There are a lot of variables to be addressed there.

The price becomes an ethical question, one which I think needs to be reviewed by admins/moderators. Leaving it up to the the chance that 'no one will buy at that price' leaves uninformed members of our community exposed to potential exploitation.

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Hints for selling something faster:

- Be fair with your asking price (if you are unsure, search the Archives or PM an Admin/Mod)

I can understand your wish to be able to ask whatever price you want for your fish. That's the nature of capitalism. This however is a community forum of hobbyists and I think there needs to be some ethical oversight when allowing members to sell their goods here. If you've paid a certain amount for a fish or breeding group, have made money from posessing them and selling their offspring, is it ethical to ask for a higher value than what you paid for those fish? Should the next owner pay you for the potential profit they might receive from owning these fish with no guarantee that they will get a return on their investment?

If you're going to make additions to the buy/sell rules, you should add a section on ethical principles. We're hobbyists, not commercial resellers. The point of this forum is to encourage people to be active in the hobby and to propagate different species kept in captivity. Allowing people to ask exorbitant amounts for fish will only lead to scarcity of those species as the higher prices will deter buyers from purchasing them and continuing their propagation. Stores treat these fish as commodities, I don't think we should be doing the same.

All that being said, if we are a community, are we all to remain silent and let one unsuspecting member of this community purchase items on this site for prices that seem too high? Perhaps all posts in the buy/sell section should have to be reviewed by an admin/moderator before they are published in the forum. This is of course, more work for the admins but it gives them a chance to perform an ethical review as well as a chance to request an edit of location details & price before the posts go public. This woud alleviate issues of public commentary/post-whoring/hijacking. The rest of the buy/sell process could be handled completely through the private message system.

At least the full quote.... and the really important part is the ""HINTS FOR SELLING SOMETHING FASTER""....It's a hint... not a rule.

If I believe in my mind that my pair of convicts is worth $200 bucks.. that's my choice. just as it's your choice to think i'm an idiot... just don't bother telling me. Each and every post has a report button and if a person honestly believes that a rule is being broken... all they have to do is click the button.

On the flip side of the coin... If I decide that I want to get out of the hobby and give away my fish or sell them at give away prices ... should anyone that gets them from me be forced to sell them at the price they acquired them for... I think not. I got my adult piranha included with the tank I bought (so basically free) and from the offspring have made close to $300. So, are these fish worth the original price... nothing ... or priceless as they are a money machine???? To my way of thinking, they are worth exactly what I feel they are worth to me. If they don't sell for the price I ask, then I have the choice of dropping the price or keeping them.

I've bought breeding groups and had them never breed for me. That's a risk I took buying as sometimes you can't copy optimum conditions. I don't blame the seller.

That said... the mods and admin might have the right or obligation to force someone to follow the site rules... But, NO ONE has the right to decide what the asking price of an individual item should be. That's the choice of the seller. The choice of the buyer or potential buyer is to either not buy ...ie. close the thread , buy or if really interested and feel the price is too high to pm with a lower offer.

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Hints for selling something faster:

- Be fair with your asking price (if you are unsure, search the Archives or PM an Admin/Mod)

At least the full quote.... and the really important part is the ""HINTS FOR SELLING SOMETHING FASTER""....It's a hint... not a rule.

That said... the mods and admin might have the right or obligation to force someone to follow the site rules... But, NO ONE has the right to decide what the asking price of an individual item should be. That's the choice of the seller. The choice of the buyer or potential buyer is to either not buy ...ie. close the thread , buy or if really interested and feel the price is too high to pm with a lower offer.

The forum rules are here. There is no mention of a suggested forum retail price other than all items for sale should have one. The word hobby is mentioned at least twice. Since this is a community forum of aquarium hobbyists, the admin team should be responsible for the protection of it's members from unscruplulous sellers as much as it is responsible to control hijacking of posts in the buy/sell forum. IF we're going to change the rules, we should be protecting everyone here, even if it's protection from other members.

If you are a member of this hobbyist community and are trying to sell your fish at three or four times what YOU know is the going market rate (not the price you paid but the current market rate) then you are trying to defraud other members of this community and should be censured. This is one of those ethical principles I was mentioning. No one likes it when their choice to ask exorbitant prices is questioned as this invariably leads to the inability to reach a maximum profit potential. Barring members from expressing dissent at the unethical actions of other members on this forum is also distasteful as it leads to public conflict.

The easiest solution is moderator review of posts and prices before they are published in the buy/sell forum. If you want to ask $300 for your breeding pair of guppies and are upset that the the mods won't allow it, then you are free to try other aquarist venues such as aquabid or ebay. Your assertion that "NO ONE has the right to decide what the asking price of an individual item should be" is incorrect. This is a privately owned forum and the administration team can make those decisions if they so choose. If you disagree, you have the right to try that kind of chicanery elsewhere. There are checks and balances and controls in the commercial sector to guard against the overpricing of items, I don't think this community should hesitate to apply these same principles to its' members.

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I agree with this.

sadly it goes against our freedoms like the right to an opinion.

but this forum is privately owned, so it can be controlled imo.

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The moderating team is discussing some proposals. As far as asking price for items, if you feel it is too high you are not obligated to buy it. Therefore it does not really affect you, ignore it and move on.

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Well said Fred!

"A thing is worth whatever the buyer will pay for it." --Publilius Syrus: "Sententiae" ca. 50 B.C.

My 2 cents worth as a BUYER. (I can't remember the last fish that I sold, for the most part I give extra fish away for free.)

A trip to Edmonton or Cowtown will cost me $40 in gas, and a half a day of my time. If I'm willing to pay $50-100, or more, for a fish for the convenience of having that fish dropped off at my doorstep, who the hell is anyone here to tell me that I can't buy that fish at what they might personally feel is an "inflated" price?

IMO price control in the buy/sell forum is a very slippery slope, and one that as a BUYER I hope the admin of this forum never choose to go down. I don't need or want protection, from anyone.

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