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Veggie Based Food Help Please


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So cannot get my staple flake anymore which sucks (2nd time a food I used discontinued) as it was excellent, so needing some tips on which next to try. I was using HBH 8 veggie flakes and am looking for something similar, meaning 1st ingredient Spirulina, no ash, and crude protein around 28-30% (my corys get fat bubbles on high protein, the adorable weirdos). I have been surfing finding the usual flakes and hating all the flours/glutens/corn etc. So anyone know of a reasonably priced vegetable flake that can be found rather easily hopefully at a lfs or a localish online place (not looking for stateside shipping eep) as I have no time or inclination to make my own. I had also wondered if I just used red/green/brown seaweed if this would meet all my fish requirements (fish in signature) but not sure. Please help a poor cory lover out....

Incidentally this is hbh ingredients, hated soy flour as 2nd ingredient but loved veggie variety.

Min Crude Protein 28%

Min Crude Fat 9%

Max. Crude Fiber 6%

Max. Moisture 10%.

Ingredients: Spirulina Powder, Soy Flour, Pea Powder, Dehydrated Alfalfa Leaf Powder, Wheat Flour, Wheat Starch, Carrot Powder, Spinach Powder, Fish Meal, Fish Oil, Wheat Germ, Brewers Yeast, Kelp Meal, Zucchini Powder, Kale Powder, Beet Powder, Soybean Oil, Soy Lecithin, Wheat Gluten, Astaxanthin, Natural Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Rosemary Extract, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin A Acetate, Choline Chloride, a-Tocopheryl Acetate (source of Vitamin E), Niacin, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Thiamin, Biotin, Pyridoxine HCl, Folic Acid, D-Activated Animal Sterol (source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Zinc Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Magnesium Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Citric Acid, Salt

Edited by SuperGuppyGirl
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I have been buying this for a couple of years. Shipping is brutal, but I usually buy lots to make up for it. They have a greens flake you may be interested in. Best Pleco carnivore wafer ever. Come to think of it I have a whack of the algae wafers if you want a sample.

http://www.almostnaturaltropicalfishfood.com

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IMO nothing else on the market comes close to this for a herbivore staple, and it can be purchased locally.

http://www.bigalspets.ca/algaemax-herbivore-diet-1-mm-sinking-pellets-250-g.html

Ingredients: Algae; Chlorella, Ulva Seaweed, Red Seaweed, Kelp, Spirulina, Wakame Seaweed, Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Eucheuma cottonii, Spinosum Seaweed, Chondrus crispus, Whole Wheat Flour, Omega-3 Fish Oil, Alfalfa, Astaxanthin, Capsanthin, Zeaxanthin, Vitamins etc

Crude Analysis:

Crude Protein (min) - 32%
Crude Fat (min) - 5%
Crude Fiber (max) - 10%
Moisture (max) - 10%
Ash (max) - 9%

FYI - HBH was recently bought out by Pisces Pros, which appears to have either dropped a number of their product line, or are simply selling out whatever was left.

Edited by RD.
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BTW - all sprirulina types contain ash (10- 20%), the only reason that your HBH food didn't show ash on the label is there is no legal requirement to do so. Typically when ash content is left off of a pet food label, it wasn't done by accident.

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I have been buying this for a couple of years. Shipping is brutal, but I usually buy lots to make up for it. They have a greens flake you may be interested in. Best Pleco carnivore wafer ever. Come to think of it I have a whack of the algae wafers if you want a sample.

http://www.almostnaturaltropicalfishfood.com

You may want to think again before placing an order with Ed's ...it was an excellent flake, however lately it has been questioned. In addition it appears that finding quality flake in the states is becoming an issue as well. See thread below.

http://www.rainbow-fish.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2831

I do think the flake that Angelfins sells is pretty good, however the protein content is a little higher then you are looking for! I have and use the "Spiralina", and as well as the "Super Color", and the fish go nuts for it. It does hold it's shape better then Ed's ...I find Ed's when it get's near the bottom of the bag ..quite powdery, although still okay for young fry. I have also noticed a few others buying the same, plus the "Breeders blend" ...as I see it coming in on the group orders.

http://angelfins.ca/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=21_14&zenid=8a238e3f3eb874a7fe8c5184cb2556a4

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Spirulina flakes?

Ingredients: spray dried salmon, dried yeast, soy flour, dried spirulina algae, wheat, oat and gluten flours, shrimp meal, plankton meal, dried kelp, fish oil, lecithin, dried krill, vitamins and minerals.

yeast, soy flour, wheat, oat flour, gluten flour

I personally wouldn't consider that to be "pretty good", but that's just me.

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Personally I prefer the "Northfin" Veggie pellet ...however it is not a staple food for my fish ..."Frozen" Bloodworms, Shrimp, and Daphnia covers about 75% of there diet, soaked in Boyd's Vitachem and a little garlic juice. They just get the "Northfin" veggie pellets and a bit of flake for the odd treat.

Based on the ingredients on the packages, Angelfins and HBH, and HBH use to be one of my choices, if you want to stick with a flake, HBH is probably one of the better. If you wanted to go with a pellet, RD' s suggestion sounds good as well. However if I was going to completely change my Cory's diet I would consult with AA syno321 or AA Quill - Paul Hawks from Regina.

Cheers

Rick

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I'm interested in trying the AlgaeMax. I bought the NorthFin Veggie (switched from NLS Cichlid) for my Tropheus last time because I was promised it was high quality, the fish would like it, and it's Canadian made. All those claims turned out true; however, their colors have faded noticeably. I've used quite a few NLS formulae, and they always made colors in my fish POP! I think I'll be going back when this NorthFin runs out.

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HBH is no longer, see previous comment I made. At best you might be lucky and find some old stock kicking around, but for now I cannot even confirm that Pisces Pros are still manufacturing any of the lines, and many products have for certain been discontinued.

Having said that, the OP's HBH flake appeared to be high in soy flour, and also included soy oil. I wouldn't feed that to my fish if I won a lifetime supply for free. But that's just me. Ditto to much of the flakes sold by Angelfins. More soy flour, along with wheat, oat flour, gluten flour, etc. Low cost filler ingredients that look like a fish formula designed in the 1960's. Bleh.

The main reason that the fish go after foods such as that with gusto is due to the "spray dried salmon", which is high in both protein & fat, and would no doubt trigger a good feed response. No different than spray dried blood meal that was used in years past, and still is in many commercial farm feeds.

Northfin makes a good quality food, generally speaking I would have no issue recommending their food, I have used it on a number of different fish and their color & overall health has held true (compared to NLS) and it appears to be just as digestible. Having said that, I would not recommend a couple of their products, one being their veggie formula. Not that it is a bad food, or made from low quality ingredients, but simply using kelp as a main ingredient (as Omega has done for years) is not the same as utilizing a wide variety of aquatic based plant matter, that contain a wide assortment of nutrients, such as NLS has done with their new line of AlgaeMax pellets & gel mixes. Kelp meal is very easy to source, so some manufacturers use it as their main or only source of plant matter. It also contains approx 30-40% ash content, due to its high mineral content. Again, not a bad thing, IMO there's just better ways to get the job done.

It appears that NLS also have a new mini wafer out as well, and the ingredients have also been improved in that line. I know that they now use less wheat in ALL of their product line up, due to using a higher inclusion rate of aquatic plant matter which also assists as binding agents.

http://www.bigalspets.ca/mini-wafers-7-5-mm-sinking-tablets-125-g.html

Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed, Chlorella Algae, Kelp, Spirulina, Garlic, Beta-Carotene, Alfalfa, Mollusk, Omega-3, Fruit Extract, Vegetable Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamins etc .....

Crude Protein (min) - 33%
Crude Fat (min) - 5%
Crude Fiber (max) - 6%
Moisture (max) - 10%
Ash (max) - 8%

And when Paul (syno321) needs to consult with someone about fish nutrition, he calls me. Sorry Paul, I couldn't resist. lol :)

Edited by RD.
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I hadn't realized that NLS had a veggie formula. But never really looked for one. I, as many others are NLS fans through and through. It's my go to. All my pellet foods are NLS, but for a carnivore disc for plecos ANFF is the bomb. I'm not a big fan of flake, just seems messy to me and easily waterlogged.

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I'm not a big fan of flake either, no matter the brand. As you said it's messy, and it needs to be eaten up quickly as the water soluble vitamins begin leaching out the moment those flakes hit the water. Pellets are typically more nutrient dense, and far more stable in water.

To the OP ....... if you are determined to feed flake food, and want one that has a main ingredient of spirulina, you might want to check out Fluval Vegetarian flakes. You can get these locally (I've seen them at Petland), and they look as good or better than the HBH flakes that you were feeding.

Ingredients: Dried spirulina algae, herring meal, dried potato, krill, wheat flour, wheat bran, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dried broccoli, dried cabbage, dried carrot, dried garlic, dried kelp, shrimp meal, dried spinach, fish oil (preserved with BHA), dried yeast, flaxseed oil, wheat germ meal, choline chloride, DL-methionine, lecithin, vitamin E supplement, inositol, citric acid (preservative), BHT (preservative), calcium L-ascorbyl-2-monophosphate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, propyl gallate (preservative), thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, vitamin A supplement, ethoxyquin (preservative), vitamin B12 supplement, biotin, vitamin D3 supplement.

  • Crude protein Min 35%
  • Crude fat Min 6%
  • Crude fiber Max 4%
  • Moisture Max 9%
  • Ash Max 10%
  • Calcium Min 1.5%
  • Phosphorus Min 1%
  • Vitamin A Min 15,000 IU/Kg
  • Vitamin D3 Min 600 IU/Kg
  • Ascorbic acid(Vitamin C) Min 350 mg/Kg
  • Vitamin E Min 150 IU/Kg
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This has been an amazing read, thank you for the information RD, I may be tempted to alter my feeding formula. I use the breeder flake form anglefins, and I have noticed a difference in spawning behaviour in a few of my fish. This is the only flake food I use, and I have used it for many years. I am intrigued by the veggie bases foods you recommended as I use some veggie wafers, and veggie pellets. I may try out the fluval and nls food based on your recommendation.

I know you have linked big als as a local source for acquiring these foods, but I am curious if you might be able to recommend a location to acquire these in larger quantities for a fair price? Seems you have done your research....

Edited by vince0
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I believe that NLS AlgaeMax comes in the larger bucket sizes, in 1, 2 and 3mm pellet sizes, but as to who has those sizes is beyond me. You'd have to ask around the various suppliers/vendors. As far as the Fluval flakes I don't believe that they are sold in bulk.

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Thank you everyone! Given me a lot to start researching, I choose flakes as yes they are messy but easier to crush to start transitioning fry from powder to adult food without storing excess. My elbow room is starting to get very limited. I just use flakes as staple but do very the diet with frozen bloodworms/mysis/cyclopeez and live daphnia, hence the need for lower crude protein.

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