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Why Are Pet Stores That Sell Fish Not Held To The Same Standards As They Are With Other Animal Life?


Mew
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Over the past 6 months I have experienced numerous situations wherein I've purchased fish from a pet store and had them either all die, or come down with someone, or found out the next day that they had a very severe disease or ailment.

Even with quarantining some of the things the fish I've had, have come up with is extremely contagious, and obviously is resting in the pet store aquariums as well.

What I'm not getting- is if a puppy was adopted, and it turned out this puppy had an extreme case of almost deathly worms, and a ton of other things.... people would be rioting if this was something that happened constantly with dogs....or even cats.

But with fish it seems that pet stores can just do whatever they want, and don't have to work to keep their fish healthy or guarantee a clear bill of health.

They can hide behind their refund policies to avoid responsibility.

How is that even possible?

I know some people are going to say that with fish there's stress and so many elements from moving them etc... but I'm talking about pure neglect or a lack of even empathy at this point for thousands of living creatures.

Pet stores should be required to ensure that the fish are in good health and standing- CLEARLY before selling.

Especially if this same business model would never be accepted with our fluffy friends.

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You are right that same business model is not longer accepted, at least for dogs; I can;t think of any pet stores that sells dogs directly; most of them work with adoption agencies now. If pets stores were held to the same standards as dogs and cats, they would not longer be allowed to sell fish any more. at least not directly. And if that is the case, than we would be able to buy would directly from breeders. While it might not come to that with fish stores, nothing is stopping you from only buying directly from local breeders.

Many, many, many years ago when i worked in a small pet store and we were allowed to sell dogs and cats, it was standard to include a free vet check with them to ensure the animal was healthy; this was to ensure peace of mind for the customer that they were getting a healthy animal but also because there were some things you just can see with the naked eye, no matter how experienced or well trained you are. At the same time we tend to self-diagnose and treat fish diseases ourselves versus taking them to a vet. Would it make sense to bring your fish to a vet for a thorough check-up? At there any vets that are even qualified to do so?

The main issue with fish is they are almost never sourced from local breeders / farms. Almost all of them come from overseas, at at the very least another country so I think that has a lot to do with it.
Of course that being said, if they are clearly sick, than the store shouldn't be selling them; that's just common sense. And certainty some stores are better at it than others.

I think i am just rambling on..lol... but yeah there are lots of different factors

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you are talking about an animal with a porous skin, which gets stressed during transport, thereby reducing the slime coat which offers the animal protection. Even with fish in perfectly good health, this can lead to susceptibility of diseases. you are then transferring them to a different environment, which may or may not be free of pathogens (which are everywhere) in a weakened state. i'm not saying all stores are perfect, but accidents happen, even to healthy fish. all it takes is a bump and they can get sick.

As for the stores selling perfectly healthy fish, while this would be ideal, this is also a high stress environment. Between the crowding, the constant movement outside its tank, the stress of being transported to the store, sometimes thousands of miles, I'd be surprised if any animal would fare well under these conditions. This is published information by people a lot more educated than me.

What am I getting at here? Maybe this should be a little like the produce section at your grocery store, if you buy a rotten fruit, don't be surprised if it tastes bad. It's not the stores fault for selling fruit that may have spoiled, rather the consumer, for not paying attention to what they are buying. But hey, I'm all for a nanny state... I just don't like the costs that come with the extra protection...

Edited by vince0
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Not too long ago there was a detailed and lengthy study conducted by one of the Southern universitys. It's purpose was to determine whether the fish stores were selling diseased fish owing to poor practices or if some other factors were involved. The final results were surprising but easy to understand. Approximately 68% of the hobbyists fish deaths were caused not by the addition of sick fish but very healthy ones. After fish have been in a community tank for even a short period of time they are not subjected to all the various pathogens and parasites which exist in the wild or in some of the range systems existing in pet stores. When a new fish or group of fish are added to a community tank often fish with poor immune systems are overwhelmed before their immune systems can get up to speed.

The study concluded that newcomers should be quarantined for a minimum of one month and better for two as over this period parasites will die out when they cannot locate a weakened host.

I have been buying fish for decades from shops all over N. America, have always quarantined new purchases carefully, and at times gone for long periods without losing a single fish.

At the same time, having seen tons of aquariums in peoples homes, I realize just how badly a very high percentage of hobbyists maintain their tanks. They are far worse than the pet stores.

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I know for certain that the two national chain pet stores out here offer a ten day return policy on any fish they sell that happen to perish after leaving the store. Now I have yet to test them on this as none of the fish i've lost since rejoining the hobby a year ago either happened within that first ten days. For that matter when they did pass by the time they were discovered(check my tanks in the morning before I leave for work and feed/clean/maintenance as needed) had almost nothing remaining my fish and inverts don't starve but they aren't over fed either and are usauLly hungry.

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I hate to say this but most of the big box stores are in business. If they sold fish that lasted, they wouldn't have a repeat customer. And if you go back and mention you're having problems with fish death, they sell you some water chemical, medicine, etc. If you want your fish to last, get a fish suited to your water and your tank style and buy from a local breeder.

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I used to buy problematic fish from LFS and my microbiology courses became very relevant when I was treating for parasitic/bacterial/fungal infections monthly. Some of the things I encountered I had to swab and use differential media to figure out what type of fungi I was dealing with. Callamanus worms taking out a whole 60 Gallon with 50-75 live bearers. It was stressful, disheartening, and stupid expensive too. Since getting on this forum I sold all my old stuff and started from scratch, and now I buy awesome healthy fish from members of this forum. I know they are raised in careful and ethical situations and I am loving life now. I have had one case of Ichthyophthirius (Ich) which some believe is an inevitability, and thats it. I'm not labeling all LFS as "bad" but my new experience is so much more pleasant than my old one. I love meeting people in their homes and garages talking about fish and learning, rather than going to a LFS and potentially getting horrible fish and horrible advice. Last and most least of all its cheaper buying from community members than the LFS. I now feel better knowing that i'm not perpetuating the mistreatment of fish by going to the "big box stores" and buying stuff from them.

Thank you to the people of this community who are passionate about good fish keeping, and share the hobby with people like me!

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Nice post Andrew ... almost sucked me into breeding again. Indeed you can rest assured about getting healthier fish and even save money from buying from local breeders. Thank you for your support!

However the issue with fish of lower quality and health from your LFS is not nessesarily the total fault of our LFS. I know of a number of LFS owners that are very happy to receive healthier fish from me. I have brought in fish from excellent breeders, not fish farms from around the continent and they do take a beating being shipped in small packages, with many fish, for long periods of time. A bad apple in a bunch can happen quite easily ... I have taken a number of hits! As much as people make take precaution about catching the flu or a cold it happens ...someone at the office gets sick ...then everyone is sick. In our tanks with a couple of dozen fish the risk is lower but in a LFS where there is thousands the risk is ten fold. My mother was telling me 60 years ago when she worked for Woolworth Dept Stores how the fish shippments used to come in where 25 to 50 % were dead. Breeders have less fish and less risk and more time to care for the fewer fish. I could go on with a number of reasons, paragraphs, why it is difficult for our LFS owners to bring us in heathier fish but I think my point is being made.

I think we should throw a little more support for them ...most of them, do try there best ...unlike us there livelihood depends on it!

However don't stop supporting your local breeder! :)

Cheers

Ric

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I believe that blaming the LFS for selling you bad fish is like blaming a used car for breaking down after driving it for years with no maintenance.

Yes, you can get sick or weak fish from a LFS, in fact I'll wager MOST fish come from the LFS in a sick and/or weakened state. As some of the previous posts have detailed, the fish trade is very hard on livestock and many fish die to get to our tanks, knowing this you can't really assume that the fish which are left over are healthy, they're just healthier than the ones which didn't survive the trip.

Back to my original analogy, if you buy a used car the first thing you should do IMHO, is change the oil and other fluids, yup, even if the slick looking fellow in the polyester suit tells you they've been changed. It's good policy to KNOW that you start with good maintenance practices and to continue them.

Same with fish! Sure those new fish are pretty and gosh, they'd look fantastic in your tank but you need to quarantine them, for at least a month or better, two months.
Some fish should be treated for camallanus worms (great info here: http://albertaaquatica.com/index.php?showtopic=44503&hl= ), some fish should be treated for wasting (CPD/galaxy rasbora seem to usually have wasting from the factory), other fish just need time to acclimate to your water and husbandry.

There are stores which tell you they quarantine and I say hogwash. Putting fish into a random store tank which is used for all new arrivals for a few days or even a week is not long enough to know whether they've got any illnesses or parasites, in fact in the case of camallanus worms you could infect 4 new batches of fish before the first fish start showing visible signs of worms. By that time how many tanks in the store will be infected by the new arrivals? In the case of some of our Edmonton LFS, one batch of fish with camallanus worms could infect ALL of the fish since their tanks are joined into one system.

Basically what I'm saying is that you are responsible for your fish, so quarantine them (2 months) and treat them as needed. This forum and the various facebook groups are wonderful resources that let you have an entire fish keepers club at your fingertips, if you can't identify an illness or parasite chances are one of the other keepers can so don't be shy about asking for help.

Edited by blink
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  • 1 month later...

Wow, every single response here was awsome and responsibly written. I too don't want to see LFS go extinct. As consumers we can use our buying power to influence what I consider a road to win, win for everyone. What I'm going to suggest will not only keep fish stores in business but help local breeders as well, and in doing this will inevitably offer healthier fish to consumers.

When you go to your LFS ask for locally raised fish. They will probably look at you like your head is made of cheese. But if enough of us do this, stores will catch on. There is a demand for locally raised fish. Fish that haven't travelled thousands of miles, cramped in overcrowded bags where the survivors, though healthy, are weekened by stress and prone to disease. As mentioned by many posts above, local breeders have fewer tanks and more time to care for their fish. Their fish are raised in local water conditions and are subjected only to a short trip to the fish store. Resulting in stronger fish, less susceptible to paracites and disease that circulate through display tanks.

The truth be known, 80% of the fish exported from Asia to North America are Asia's culls. Truth be known, WE GET THE JUNK. i've heard this from many importers and wholesalers. Europe gets the second best but the best they just don't export. Asia breeds lots of fish because they love fish. But only a small percentage of fry will be quality, so the culls are sent to us.

If you want quality fish, buy from local breeders who search far and wide, even bring in or smuggle fish in their suit cases to get good breeding stock and then raise healthy, quality fry.

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