The FISHLESS CYCLE

[T Dawg]

- The FISHLESS CYCLE. - Establishing a new tank;

4) Expect the first phase of the cycling (getting the ammonia eating, nitrite producing bacteria to grow) to take about 4-8 days if you keep the tank at 88-90C. This phase is completed when you can get the ammonia reading to go from 4-5ppm to 0 in 12-16 hours (i.e. you add ammonia in the evening and the next morning it is down to zero). You will typically see your highest (2-5 ppm) nitrite readings at this point.

How do you get your tank up above 85c? I must have cheaped out on heaters.

But having said that I mis-read and have been keeping my tank at 0.5ppm instead of 5ppm. Time to start over I guess.

[T Dawg]

2) Ammonia comes at a variety of concentrations so you should dose it in to get around 4-8ppm (if you add too much it will slow the process down). In a 29 gal tank with grocery store ammonia I was adding 2-4 mls of ammonia to get this reading.

I think I figured out why my tank is not showing much progress after a month. When I took the example ammonia amount for Smokey’s 29 and tripled it for my 90 12mls got me 0.6ppm on my API tets kit. I figured the decimal point was off and gave it no more thought. Now I have added about 75ml of the safeway brand ammonia to get to 5ppm. Does that sound correct?

Should I re-seed with gravel from the other tank or will the bacteria in/on it still be alivefrom the stuff I stold from the last tank since the ammonia has not been under 0.03ppm?

Edited April 4, 2009 by T Dawg

[Vallisneria]

Now I have added about 75ml of the safeway brand ammonia to get to 5ppm. Does that sound correct?

Yes that sounds more like it. I used safeway brand ammonia and I remember adding a few TBSP to get it to around 5ppm in my 90g, so 75mls sounds better then 12mls(which isn't even a TBSP).

The bacteria in the gravel should still be alive if you have been adding the small amount of ammonia. The bacterial colony might not be too large, so if you can spare some extra seeded gravel it can't hurt to add more. Or some filter squeezings from a used filter sponge, or the sponge itself to the filter will also help.

[T Dawg]

I used safeway brand ammonia and I remember adding a few TBSP to get it to around 5ppm in my 90g, so 75mls sounds better then 12mls(which isn't even a TBSP).

The bacteria in the gravel should still be alive if you have been adding the small amount of ammonia. The bacterial colony might not be too large, so if you can spare some extra seeded gravel it can't hurt to add more. Or some filter squeezings from a used filter sponge, or the sponge itself to the filter will also help.

Great. Thanks for the advice. A tablespoon is about 15ml, and I put about 5 in tablespoons. I think we are at about 4ppm, but the offical tester says 5ppm. Now to wait for her to go to sleep so I can raid her tank for more gravel...

[Smokey]

I used safeway brand ammonia and I remember adding a few TBSP to get it to around 5ppm in my 90g, so 75mls sounds better then 12mls(which isn't even a TBSP).

The bacteria in the gravel should still be alive if you have been adding the small amount of ammonia. The bacterial colony might not be too large, so if you can spare some extra seeded gravel it can't hurt to add more. Or some filter squeezings from a used filter sponge, or the sponge itself to the filter will also help.

Great. Thanks for the advice. A tablespoon is about 15ml, and I put about 5 in tablespoons. I think we are at about 4ppm, but the offical tester says 5ppm. Now to wait for her to go to sleep so I can raid her tank for more gravel...

:welcome: T.Dawg n.n ammonia has a higher concentation off NH3 than show brands! To achieve the high amount of NH3/4 is necessar so the N02 bacteria can colanize the media's. Which allows the N03'S to enter the pictuer (tank) ... much sooner than in natural (4 - 6 week time).

Water X/C's will now regulate the N03 content in a mature tank. :thumbs:

[T Dawg]

:welcome: T.Dawg n.n ammonia has a higher concentation off NH3 than show brands! To achieve the high amount of NH3/4 is necessar so the N02 bacteria can colanize the media's. Which allows the N03'S to enter the pictuer (tank) ... much sooner than in natural (4 - 6 week time).

Water X/C's will now regulate the N03 content in a mature tank. :thumbs:

Sifting the info with the startup can be hard.

[Smokey]

T DAWG ... did you cycle your tank with or with out fish?

how did it turn out?

p.s. reading instructions aren'tnecessary.

Edited October 15, 2009 by Smokey

[T Dawg]

T DAWG ... did you cycle your tank with or with out fish?

how did it turn out?

p.s. reading instructions aren'tnecessary.

Without. Fish seem happy. First batch o fish had no loss. Very little death in general, unlike the small tank that started the hobby. A few lost on subsiquent adds (each time we add tetras we loose two) and a few missing corys. Have a journal setup but have not updated it in a while.

[LionHeader]

I wish I read this before getting my tank! Awesome write-up for any beginner!

[Smokey]

G'day my frosty feathered friends:(sweeping off the snowflakes)

I must say that this is a timeless articale; perhaps more suited for the dedicated hobbiest(?).

Thank you to the Members who have offered insights & updates about the use of ammonia, as a resoure, to start a "clean" new tank.

Thank you Neal for mentioning Septo-Bac, another great fishkeepers secreate.

HOSStile quote "found Septo-Bac - 8 packets - enough to treat the Atlantic Ocean".

Mykiss quote "ooopppsss.... I learnt quick what I was doing wrong. So it goes to say....get the Ammonia AND nitrite test kit when doing this".

Qattrra quote "IMO the seeded fishless cycle is the best way to go, my tanks are usually ready for stocking in 1-2 weeks".

T DWAG - How do you get your tank up above 85f? I must have cheaped out on heaters. Two alternatives T DWAG; 7teen 250 watt ebowjaggers, or change the C to an F.LOL As i understand Bio-Bacteria like warm aireated water.

VERY IMPORTANT ... A large water change (50-70%) should be done before adding any fish to the tank to lower nitrate levels, which can be a pain to bring down later.

Smokey

in the Canadian Rocky Mountains

Edited May 19, 2010 by Smokey

[T Dawg]

T DWAG - How do you get your tank up above 85c? I must have cheaped out on heaters. Two alternatives T DWAG; 7teen 250 watt ebowjaggers, or change the C to an F.LOL As i understand Bio-Bacteria like warm aireated water.\

I'm not sure they like it that warm! I suspect your origonal post meant F but put C. 88-90C. Never too late for an edit!

[JLake]

yeah the bacteria arent going to love a jacuzzi

[Smokey]

yeah the bacteria arent going to love a jacuzzi

OK..OK.. I bow to peer pressure.. I am but a humble fish feeper.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Smokey

[Ref33Matt]

I'm a newbie, 36 bow front, Fluval 204. Attempting Fishless cycling. No seed material so I used about 3/4 cup of strained 12 hr old septo-bac in about 3 gals of dechlorinated water. The fluval has nothing but two foam vertical, Pre-filter ceramic on the bottom and biomax in the middle and top baskets. Small foam at very top.

So I misread or misunderstood the ammonia addition requirements. Instead of adding daily, I only did this:

Started with enough to get to 5 ppm, 3 or 4 days, level down to 2. Stayed at two for a couple days, so I added about 3/4 original amount ammonia to get back to 5. Couple days, back to two. Been stuck there for a week. NO nitrItes at all, using two different test kits.

Question/Ideas??

Have I killed/starved most of the septo-bac dudes?

Do I need to start over? Or do I run up the ammonia to 5 and then start adding the original amount every day from there?

[Ref33Matt]

Temp about 86, have it dark, 3 airstones and a clam for bubblers...