T Dawg

3)what would be the best placement of the input and outputs(xp1+xp4)?

4)Spray bar or nozzle?

5)should i get a power head?

6)and how many gph?

thanks in advance.

Sounds like we have similar filter setups. I find even with the spray bar the current is quite strong, so I would recommend that over the nozzle. The two units should provide all the water movement and filtration you need.

As far as ideal placement I think the location of input and output depends on where the bigger items in the tank are and aesthetics. My goal was to create a lower current area for the fish to rest or hide but have all the water moved a bit, I was not concerned about hiding the pickups. I have my inputs along the back 6" and 1' from each end. One of the spay bars is horizontal along the top pushing lengthwise, the other is vertical pushing from back to front. I tried a few differnt setups before the fish were added.

Something to think about.. You're on holidays and won't be back for a week. lightening strikes and power goes out for 2 seconds. The power bar trips.. The power comes back on but the power bar doesn't supply it to the tanks anymore. Hooked up to my tanks is a battery backup system designed for a computer.

You may not have a lot of power draw, but a week would seem to be very optimistic for most UPSs. Even a small Elite 20 HOB filter is 3.4 watts would max out at 4.5 days on a high end consumer UPS. My XP3 is 28W, throw in my XP2 and the airpump and even a single battery mid grade 2200VA server UPS would be a stretched at a week, but all bets are off if the heaters kick in.

While your case may be different, a run time calculation on the UPS does not always match what you get with a plugs out test.

A UPS is still a good idea.

yeah tough one, you are going to have to figure out how your stand is put together and see if you can duplicate it..but it shouldn't be too bad. But the hard part is what to do with the tank, it seems super tempting to move it but even at 1/4 full the water weight in a 90 gallon alone is over 180 lbs and not to mention your sand and other stuff oh and your tank weight.. if you can slid it onto a temp stand and everything is even and sturdy, then cool or else you have to drain it... Tough one...sorry cant be more help, it is tough call that only you can make.

I put it together a few months back (mid feb) so the how it goes together part is no problem. Let's avoid the only lasted how many months issue.

The weight is manageable, the worry is how fragile the tank is with a partial load. Is it sad I know the weight of the gravel and deco is 40lbs?

The strenght of the board, or lack there of, is why I was not willing to try and move the stand at all(and was willing to live with the potenal of rotten underlay). I don't think it is safe anymore, and while it might be possible to flatten the minor bumps now are hard to notice, especialy with the doors off.

The tank is no where near capacity, so having the inhabitance in a smaller temp home should be relitivly simple if I can catch them all. The fry are hidden all over in the rocks, and not having to deal with that is part of the appeal of the second stand slide. Sliding it with 1/4 full just seems so tempting.

If I had talent and a temp stand, I would try for a peice of stained maple plywood to replace the bottom particle board peice. I guess I could do that without the temp stand and have the tank empty on the floor for a while, the question is can I do that without the talent. With the tempstand I have all the time in the world to fart around and figure it out.

Don't you have technically have over 50 tanks? Unless you start sleeping standing up or selling shoes where would you put more tanks...

Some pics of the stand (and the carpet being lifted with air being blown under to dry underlay).

The stand has 4 short legs, which sit on shims for leveling. The legs are under the two middle vertical boards.

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I'd suggest useing a tupperware tub or something of the like of the same size as your tank and keep your gravel and decorations as well as your filter going in the tub. .......P.S. If you get another particle board stand(they are allot cheaper) I'd suggest waterproofing it a bit by painting the exposed ends of the board with varnish or something. ........P.P.S. I saw a water alarm at Home depot or Rona for a fraction of the price you'd find in fish stores if anyone wants to pick one up.

A few replies I guess.

I was 4' from the tank when the flood happened, so the water alarm not so helpful in my case.

1 90 Galon rubber made container would be a pain, but a few smaller could be doable as I have a few heaters and filters.

I am 100% sure only the bottom board is damaged, as all other boards sit on it, and it absorbed the water from the bottom through the face of the board. Could not move the full tank, and while I got most of the water up right away the carpet underlay acted as a sponge. While the stand did have short legs the board did touch the top of the carpet.

With the laminant (style of stand is bigger reason for choice than cost, would rather by the same stand in hardwood at tripple the price or have it built). Not sure how I would better seal the board. The water came through the face of the board. I'll try and post some pics later to describe better.

I think there is a big differnce between 3/4 full and 1/4 when it comes to moving. If I am sliding stand to stand of teh same hight I am willing to try, but if I need to lift I do agree that it needs to be empty.

We had a flood caused by the fish tank about a month ago. We have a 48"L x 18"W x 28"H Singray Stand and the bottom board made of particle board sucked up the water like a sponge and warped. It has warped so I am worried about the amount of stress being put on the tank, and the tank is no longer level nor do the door operate.

So I guess the best bet is get new stand and drain the tank to 25% and move it with the inhabitants still inside. I know trying to move full fish tank is a nono, but I am hoping a slid when lightly filled might be OK.

I guess the second option would be building/finding a temp stand, and replacing the bottom board with plywood. This could involve tools and band aids, but the next flood the stand would hold up better.

So thoughts, comments, alternatives?

I think Fleshgear (on here...) is breeding Bronze Cory's

If you wait for the 2nd Saturday of each month, Riverfront Aquariums has their FW fish on for 2 for 1 and they usually have a good assortment of cory's to choose from and range in price from $4-$10ish.

Pretty much all the LFS in Calgary have cory's and they're usually not to badly priced.

If you can wait a really long time...there will likely be a Fall auction in both Edmonton and Calgary, and there's always cory's there.

Riverfront was kind enough to sex our corys when we bought them, or so they said. We took advantage of their discount for fish clubbers rather than waiting for the discount day and were quite please with the price. We've also bought Corys from Big Als and Pet Land with good results.

The guess is the big girl endler is holding. Just what we needed, more babies. The fish seemed to be more afriad durring the water change than normal. most were hiding under the plants. 30 fish in one tight school trying to all hide under the same plant. Should have got a picture.

We did a tour of all the fish stores in Calgary on Saturday, but only came home with a few new bottles of food. We almost got some more Neon Tetra's, but I was unswayed by the reasoning between getting morefish.

The S.O. is sure Ginger is not holding, but I am not as sure. We both feel moving her back to the small tank would be mean as she seems to take full advantage of the size and is way more active. My guess is we are going to end up with some feeders.

A few of the Endlers juniors are starting to show some colours. I thought it odd it took so long, but glad to see we got a few boys in the bunch.

The Corys have still been quiet, but for the first time in a while all siz have been seen at the same time.

I fished out the holder for the feeding ring. That stuck on for about two minutes before popping back off. Sigh. I took the time to get my arms wet and move some air tubing and plants around. In addition to the 25% water change I also serviiced the XP2. Looks like the polishing pad is toast, but the other items were in good shape so after a stir, squeeze, or shake as apropreate the media was put back in service less the pad. I'll need to grab a few new ones this week (since I guess the one in the XP3 is going to be in similar shape). I know others are using all sorts of substitues, but I'll stick to the fish store stuff for now.

Did a 25% water change. Shutoff the filters and all accesories again. The change seemed uneventful. Finaly got around to cutting the plastic on the top so the top fits tightly without the big 4" gap in the back. I'll need to relocate the feeding ring, but I droped the sucting cup in the tank so I will need to try and fish it out next water change.

Ginger was having a hard time after Fred died. Lots of hiding, twitching, and other unhappy fish behavor.

We transfered her to the 90. After a few hours between hiding and darting she figured out she was the biggest fish in the tank. After that she seemed back to normal. She seems to make good use of the tank size, and I feel she is a bully. The S.O. says I am mistaken, but she has not hesitation knoking the corys or any other fish around. One of the boy endlers is quite taken with her, and I suspect she is packing so I would prefer to move her out of the tank fairly soon.

Speaking of baby fish, they seem to be everywhere you look.

Well, the easy answer is there is none. Ginger was moved to the 90. Not sure what the future holds for the tank.

cool thank you guys i will be trying it soon just have to get some prime and that will make it way easier and i will have way cleaner tanks i have been doing 1 tank a day in my house but only 20 to 25% just cuz of haveing to leave it out over night

On the smaller tank I am a chicken so I let the water sit in a bucket. We fill the bucket with cold water, treat with prime, and heat or leave sit and let it come up to room temp.

In the bigger tank the minor stuff that could be added by the hot water tank and the temporary effect of chlorine worries me less. Lots of others will do changes in smaller tanks too.

:cuss: marineland. I put it in in 75 gallon tank right out of the box. I have the heater working at 28 and my tank is at 21. The heater turns on every 5 mins for 10 seconds then shuts off. If a 300 watt can't heat a 75 gallon how can 2 heat a 500. :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: :cuss: I droped 55 bucks on 2 :cuss: heaters and they are pieces of :cuss:

anyone else have this problem with marineland?

I paid more than that for my single fluval 300 on sale. I guess the short answer is they are not a great product, but they are cheap. I found the basic marinland we started with allowed for too wide a temperature swing (3c) for my liking. I specifically looked for an electronic unit and ended up with a fluval and a rena.

You may be having an issue with the safety system in the unit. You could try unplugging for ten minutes, making sure proper water level and unit is upright, and twist the dial back and forth between the stop s a few times. I found if it was not vertical, at the right level it, or touching anything it would act up with the behaviour you describe.

I do wonder how much wattage is needed if you want to be up at 28c on a 500G. I have 500W for my 90, but I also have sissy lights and I know lighting can add a lot. I keep it at 25 and even when the house is 17 I seem to have a comfortable overhead (60% of the time on).

Just because some one makes a large amount of money or has a nice house or fancy cars does not mean that a business has the right to soak them for services.

True, but you may sleep better at night having charged them more. I joke about the soak the dentist factor because they do tend to over pay, and like it. Some dentists are high demand and high toy factor, as their business is competing for clients. As with all generalizations, it is frequently wrong, don't flame me.

I can only talk about my own ethical choices. When I ran a computer consulting company all clients did not pay the same rate. I had a quoted rate. I then had discounted rates on a variety of factors. At the end of the day a dentist and a few an oil and gas clients were at my highest rate. Who got discounts? The charities I worked with, the clients that book regular service, the clients that agreed to accelerated payment terms, clients who were less demanding, the clients that gave me referrals, the groups that I felt needed a boost. Between my lowest and highest rate was the mean number I needed charge to make the factors I mentioned before work.

In the case of my dentist client, he was a great guy and he knew he was paying more and why. He was friends with a few of my other clients and we joked a few times about the soak the dentist factor. At the end of the day he wanted me at his beck and call 24/7. He may not have needed that, but he felt he did and paid more to have it.

In your example, I might say the guy in the fancy car may choose to pay more for mid grade rather than wait in-line for bronze at the pump, and when I was pumping gas I would probably go up to the car and say it’s only x more if you want to try a tank of the good stuff.

I know no specifics here, but it sounds like this dentist could shop for another service group. We need to factor in at some point no matter how shady we may view the situation from our view from the distance, at some point for some reason both parties entered in to it.

For many larger firms the time needed to lower costs is more costly than the savings so they more along at the higher rates. They can also afford to put more weight into “soft” factors over teh bottom line.

Unfortunately there are companies out there in all industries that routinely take advantage of people like that.

Rotate the fins, align the eyes, monthly colonoscopy....

I had to goto the dentist today, what a way to spend Saturday morning, and they asked me if I wanted their fish. I am not into the community tank but I asked why. They have a company come in twice a month to maintain the tank, do water changes , tests, fill the auto-feeder, clean the glass....... BLAH BBLAH BLAH. All normal stuff when you have a tank. This is only a 55 gallon tank.

Their bill for this is $300 a month and does not include the food , fish, chemicals,or filter replacement parts. :shock:

Is that normal or is it extremely high??? Might be time to start a week end business.

If I found 20 tanks to clean every two weeks and charged $300 but included everything I could make an extra $6000 amonth minus supplies. So say $4000 take home. I could kill two birds with one stone, make money and feed the MTS!!! :smokey:

Derek

Labour, transportation, insurance(Don't underestimate the cost and need for liability insurance), random government BS (business license, WCB, etc), and add a book keeper a few hours a month and costs do add up, but the soak a dentist factor should not be under-rated.

Off the top, an hour a week @ $50, plus auto and travel so charge $75 to $100 for visit, 4 visits a month. So $300 seems reasonable, they must be billing less than $50 an hour, but as an example the $50 an hour get nibbled by above so probably netting $30 an hour, and not billing anywhere need a full 8 hours a day needing time to actualy run the bussiness and not being 100% booked by clients.

Someone is making an OK living, but not cleaning up metaphorically. Then there is the finding clients, and possible related costs. Doing one or two under the table totally different then going legit as with many business like office cleaning.

Fred passed late last night. We took the time to bury him, a privilege not formerly bestowed on our other fish. Odd to care so for a few dollar guppy, but the value of his life had little consequence to his enrichment of ours.

I never realy liked that tank, and seeing it sitting there without Fred in it just makes me hate it more. The S.O. and I have not talked about the tank since, but this may be the catalyst for it's donation to her sister. I know she does like it and it was her first tank so I guess at the end of the day we will need to wait and see. O knwo she has talked about wanting a Beta since FishClubGirl's presentation at the Calgary fish club meeting a few months back.

His partner remains for now, but she seems ill, is not swimming much, and is floating near the top of the tank.

Found a few more fry while doing gravel clean. So far total of 5, but who knows how many could be lurking around. Two almost visited the lawn but we stopped the syphon in time.

Corys seem sad with the reduced current flow after the spong was added to the filter pickups, and have hovered a few times where teh current used to be the strongest.

Had an eventful water change on may 12th. Long story short we needed to pull the carpet up and we may need to replace the stand. Will post more when done setting up threads.

I may need to do some fishing for advice. Our stand stood on wet carpet for a few days The bottom seems to have deformed. Now I do not trust it, and am trying to decide if it needs to be replaced. Sad as it less than three months old. I'll post some pics tommorow and post

Still no stand pics. Will leave for now. The tank now has a new front to back lean so ultimatly I will need to do something big.

Did a 25% water change. Shutoff the filters this time, and will probably do so going forward. So just the air was left running. Without the industrial fan running the airpump is much louder than I care for.

Bumped the temp to 28 and added 1.5 tables spoons of salt. Setup the HOB to full flow but I did not take the sponge of the intake for full power.

Did a water test with the dip strip but nothing was out of bounds. Did an amonia test and it came up 0.

Fred may not have another life in him. We went to find him for feeding, and 10 minutes later found him buried head down in one of the plants. When we tried to dig him out with the next he started to twitch when he found his way in the next. Back in the tank he tried to swim, but it looks like he has no tale control and he is very abraded from the plant. His bottom fins have damage so he is trying to twitch and use his side fins to swim. He settled near the air stone. He has tried to swim a bit but he is in ruff shape. We agreed we would leave him in the tank as long as he was breathing, we owe him that. We debated, and in the end added salt and bumped the temp but I see it as more for our benefit then for his. It’s been over an hour and he is still hanging on. Ethel started to act odd once we pulled Fred out of the plant, but if that is because she is having trouble or just sad about Fred who is to say.

We have had a few fish stuck in the plant before, and I always assumed they die first and got pushed there by the current, but I think we may toss it and get another few fake Amazon Swords. This may also be a good time to try a few beginner live plants or get rid of the tank.

I've used all of them and heres the break down. Eheim HAND DOWN has the best filter media. There substrat Pro had the most surface space for bacteria to grow and we all now the more benafical bacteria the healthier your tank will by. Its true that they have a slower flow rate but thats mainly to grow the benafical bacteria faster and more of it. With them having a slowe5r flow rate you can up the size of the filter with out blowing your fish out of the water. The professional 2's and WHY more user friendly then Renas. Renas are for the most part reliable and do have a faster flow rate if your looking for that. They dont come with all the media where all the other filters do. If you buy the Rena go with the Substrat Pro. I've had a few Renas leak on me for no reason and then stop and start work well again. ???? Marinelands are reliable and more user friendly then the Rena. Cascade filters are ok. No beef with them.

I run Eheim for all my Canisters and their media in all my hang ons. THey are the Best.

Both my XP2 and XP3 came with most of the media (all but BIO). I bought the the eheim coco puff media and thought it was my dirtly little secret but I guess it seems common. I have not had them long enough to be able to speak on longevity. The XPs have a valve to throttle flow but once I added a spong on the pickup I found the current quite mild much to the anoyance of the corys.

One of the LFSs had all discussed filters in a test tank and I spent hours playing with them all.