Melody

Welcome! Pull up a tank stand & stay awhile .

I wonder how they ship? If they're that sensitive I mean. Worth a shot anyway. I haven't a clue what species he finds there, I'll have to ask him. He finds all sorts of neat creatures that I have to look up....lol. He has promised to take me collecting if I go visit someday. I have always wanted to visit the deep south anyway, so I'm looking forward to it. My contribution will probably be "HEY!!! There's one!!!!", and chatting with his wife while he works...lol. Actually, I figure it must be quite a thrill to find those fish in the wild, especially coming from a place where its not tropical, so I'll be right in there, breaking fingernails and not caring!

I can think of nothing that could improve a fish's chances more than having someone like you in the store that sells them. I can't imagine what could be wrong with working in a fish store. Not all commercial ventures are money-grubbing scam artists. Many fish stores are started because the owner loves fish. The owner/manager of the store you work at obviously looks for the kind of qualities that many others should be looking for. I hope they pay you enough . In fact, they should promote you and put you in charge of hiring!

Good point! Freezing it does wonders too. I keep all of my fish food in the freezer, and just refill smaller containers which I keep in the fridge - usually around a week's worth. I was shocked when I first learned how fast food loses its nutrient value. Minerals are more stable, but it starts to lose vitamins at an alarming rate once that seal is broken. There are also bacteria and mold concerns.

That's exactly what I do, with other stuff thrown in too. If commercial producers can come up with what they think a fish needs and throw it into pill form, I too can provide those same things using a different means to an end. Its all based on the very same principle - complete nutrition as we know it. I just use several roads to get to the same place, maybe even further. One man studied, experimented and reached conclusions. He based a line of food on that. That one man came up with NLS. Mike Reed did the same thing, came up with something else. Numerous others have done the same. There's no reason on God's green earth (or in his waters) that other people can't do the same thing. The accomplishments of these people are admirable, but they were once sitting right where you and I are today, wondering about the nutritional requirements of fish and how to improve upon that. Ten years from now they may look back and laugh about something that they thought was true right now, and chances are d*mn good that I will too. That's progress for ya . So in the meantime we do the best we can with what we know, and hope to learn more. I am perfectly capable of studying and learning as much as the next person - chances are so are most of the people here. I happen to find it interesting so I dig further. One thing that I laughed at when doing my own research (which never ends, making it that much more fun...lol), was my brilliant plan to try herbs, etc to help improve immunity. I studied the information out there about natural remedies (someone who did that tried Tea Tree Oil on fish - now its called 'Melafix'). I narrowed down the possibilities and started experimenting with it. Eureka! The fish appeared more healthy, far less illness, brood sizes went up! I had discovered something! A year later I find out that they've known that for several years and its already in dog & cat food . There is much to learn and nobody knows it all - that's exactly why I love this hobby.

Its interesting to hear about the various methods. I didn't start using live foods until I started breeding the 'eggers'. I fussed most over the Rainbows and Red Cardinal Tetras - one or the other started me into live foods. I rely heavily on frozen BBS too - pure laziness there...lol. I suppose you could say that I fence-sit - I see good points in all of the frequently used methods so I use them all to one degree or another. I believe that variety is important, which is no different than using prepared foods actually, since the plus is supposed to be in the balance. Other than the 'multi-vitamin' aspect, I also feel that omnivores and herbivores are somewhat neglected by a diet of only live foods. I think that the focus is too heavily on growth rate, which doesn't necessarily mean that they are enjoying a complete diet. For example, I read a study on Turtles - if you speed their growth rate with a high protein diet, they can have all sorts of issues and deformaties. If vegetable content (or anything else) is a part of their diet from day one in the wild, so it should also be in captivity, in my opinion. Supplements wouldn't be necessary then. Providing fresh vegetation to newborn fry isn't easy though, so processed foods are an option I choose for that. My thoughts are that you can't beat fresh if you can use fresh to provide everything that they need, including vegetation if that's part of their natural diet. Its the same thought process as is applied to human nutrition. Eating dry, processed foods may supply what we need according to what we know about vitamins and how the body uses them (any nutrionist will tell you that there's still much to learn there). However, fresh is always recommended as being better for us, if for no other reason than we DON'T know it all yet, and there may be some obscure component in fresh food that we need. Of course, there's always the point that fish do just fine on fresh stuff in the wild . That is relative though - I have never seen garlic grown in the wild but captive immunity and parasite issues have made it a good addition to the captive creature's diet. So I really don't argue methods, I just adapt and combine a few of them along with my own twist or two. I guess that's because I'm so open to other ways of doing things. After all, if you weren't open to trying something new, NLS would never have entered your tanks. We have to keep an open mind about fish-keeping or we'll never advance the hobby. The way I see it anyway.

You wouldn't last five minutes with me - if I want that Guppy, that's the Guppy I shall have or my money the store won't have. If the fish all look alike and they're all healthy, I let the employee do the scoop, otherwise that's what you're there for - to make me happy. However, stores don't pay their employees enough to deal with people like me, I'll admit....lol.

Yup, love is in the air alright! The ratio is good, but another female or two couldn't hurt. There are some beautiful long-finned Rosey Barbs that you could try if you want a bit of variety. The girls like it just fine - they're just more selective than the "Ooo its a female!" males . Unfortunately, if that Cray hasn't caused problems yet, it will eventually.

My friend catches them wild, but he says that Katrina affected the population where he used to catch them (somewhere in Louisiana). He always caught them to take to the American Livebearer Association Convention but couldn't find any last year. Before it was always easy. I know very little about them (but I know more now!), but if they ever establish in the location again I'll see if I can't get some in with one of my shipments from him & send them off to you. Anyways, interesting article! Thanks for taking the time to post it. Is there an 'articles' section here? If there's not, I think there should be. It would be useful and the search engines love content.

Well anything is hard to catch in any tank over 80G's when you're 5'3", especially anything at the bottom. They all become bottom-back dwellers when I'm trying to catch them. Ilyodon Furcidons - been trying to get all of those for a couple of weeks now so I can put the colony up for sale. Right now I'd pay someone to take them if they'd come over & catch them. Other than that, the fish that has more common names than I have hair elastics - Beaufortia kweichowensis/Butterfly Loach/Chinese Loach/Chinese Butterfly Loach/Hillstream Loach/Spotted Hillstream Loach/Butterfly Pleco/Hong Kong Pleco/DamnLoach! The safest way to catch them being when they fly off the glass to change locations - prying them off is a no-no and next to impossible anyway. You can nudge them with the net, beat their brains out if you're so inclined - they won't move if they're nervous. After 2 days of trying to transfer them to a new spacious tank and finally succeeding, they promptly died on me within a week of moving. They had been fine for over a year where they were and I waited 3 months+ before moving them so the tank would be well established. :grr: Haven't had them since, but my dream tank is a nice long river tank and I'll get them again then . Why? Because I'm a "sucker" for punishment, that's why... duh . Good thread idea .

ROFL Well I don't have to worry about that - the other occupant of my home is 12 and he's more than happy to donate his vegies to the creatures. Such a giving child .

Nobody who is putting this much thought, time and effort into the care of her fish, could be anything but a good fish Mommy .

:welcome: Sounds like you bring lots of experience/knowledge with you. A forum can never have too much of that!

Newly hatched Brine Shrimp are most nutritious by comparison to adults. The older Brine Shrimp are used as more of a treat and I wouldn't suggest that they be used as part of a constant diet. They can be gutloaded with many nutritious foods to supplement their value, but still should only be part of a varied diet, in my opinion. I have never raised Brine Shrimp to adulthood but I do have an article about it bookmarked: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...ine_Shrimp.html I'd be interested in hearing how that goes too, if you decide to go that route.

That is exactly what I meant about combining methods and covering my bases. When an old breeder talks, even I know to shut up and listen...lol. They have been doing this for eons and they know things that you'll never find in books. I can't dismiss that kind of experience so I took it under consideration. Then you have the latest research, which I eat up, so that had to be factored in. There is also the level of convenience and of course, cost. Then I focused on what was wrong - with livebearers, that was health/immunity. Bringing it all together into a varied diet has worked very well for me. That's why I enjoy hearing about everyone's experiences, because I can learn and edit my methods accordingly. So my advice is simply research it all and go with your gut. What I or anyone else does isn't necessarily the 'right' way, its just right for the individual and their fish.

They have a growth forumula that many people use, but I don't know about a fry food. There are many brands of fry foods that you can get in stores while you wait to get whatever you choose as best for your fish. There's a brief review of some here: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/otherfoods/tp/fry.htm Do be careful with them though, especially the liquid ones, as they can quickly foul the tank if overfed. If you have a store that carries Applesnails (preferrably P. Bridgesii), they'll perform clean-up duty, won't bother the fry and they produce infusoria. Most chain stores carry them if all else fails. Microworms are another option. If nobody has them around you, I'd be happy to give you a culture - they arrive the next day. I raise mine on baby cereal with a bit of cornmeal, yeast and powdered spirulina (available at many health food stores). I don't raise Cichlids, but Tetras, Rainbowfish and Livebearers have done wonderfully with them. A Google search for 'Fry food recipes aquarium' or the like will bring you recipes for making your own if you want to try that.

Always a pleasure . I have a list of fish freebies too - could you tell me where that would be best posted please?

They told me I couldn't get anything there in under two weeks - which was by air. However, I haven't shipped anything to him in a year or more, so maybe something changed. I'd love to hear about how it goes if you decide to go that route. Omega One is one of my fave 'off the shelf' foods. I use their vegie formula and shrimp pellets a lot.

I'm so sorry to hear that. If it helps, I second the advice. Best of luck with her.

Mollies were another first love - definitly one of the personality Livebearers. Lyretail Sailfins were my fave. I got out of them as I'm getting wild-type Mollies in and didn't want crosses. I love the look of a planted tank with Black & Silver (white) Sailfin Lyres. If the tank is an aquascaping showcase, it shows off every plant beautifully without distracting the eye like the more brightly colored fish can do... or worse - they clash (GASP!) Limias are closely related to Mollies and so far I find their personalities to be similar. The Nigrofasciata are like inquisitive children - afraid but can't resist trying to see what you're doing....lol. If you like Mollies, you'd probably enjoy Limias too. I've never tried the Anableps - I don't have space for something that aggressive. I have a friend (Bill Allen, you've probably seen his articles in the various magazines) who breeds the Anableps. I have him off catching fish for my next border run actually...lol....very nice guy. If you ever have questions I'd be happy to put you in touch with him. Another writer friend of mine breeds Hifin Platy's that you would not believe. I can't wait to get some of those babies in. Here is a pic that he sent me of his 'Rubynose' Hifin: The inspiring part about this breeder is two-fold. First, he doesn't have a big elaborate fishroom - very few tanks, yet he develops these amazing strains. That's the second thing - the Hifins of eons ago often looked like the above fish in regards to finnage.... I think the first was bred by Livebearer legend Dr. Joanne Norton. However, Darrell couldn't get any of those so he bred them out himself using store fish! Truly a talented breeder. Dr. Norton is my fishie Hero, God rest her soul. I wish I could have met her.

I'm sorry if any of these are repeats . DIY Custom Tank Calculator http://www.garf.org/tank/buildtank.asp DIY Custom Tank Stand Calculator http://www.garf.org/tank/buildstand.asp DIY Plenum Calculator http://www.garf.org/bulletproofreef/plenum.asp Calculate Temperature, Ammonia, Oxygen Sat, Volume, Area http://www.aquanic.org/images/tools/conversi.htm Bullet-proof Reef Calculator http://www.garf.org/bulletproofreef/bulletproof.asp Plant Fertilizer Component Calculator http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/art_plant_dosage_calc.htm

Ain't that the truth, and they continue to go up! One thing about the UK is when I send things by ground to a business associate there, it takes almost 2 months!

Darlin' there are no sides to take - we all have our methods and I'm a better fish-keeper for hearing all of them, whether I decide to use them or not. I hope that nobody ever hesitates to share their personal preferences for any reason. That's the wonderful thing about a forum, especially one filled with so much personal experience. Great! Now I have GUILT...lol....shoot me again Jason!

ROFL You were one of those boys who put spiders in little girls' hair weren't you? BRATT!

Cheese, I got my bulk supplier information through a friend at UBC. Do you know of anyone at a university who is in the 'fish departments'? I'm practically next door to the one I sent you the link for, but I never knew it existed until my friend told me. Its an idea anyway.