firestorm Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hey guys, I am curious into possibly setting up a tank in the near future for salt water, but don't know exactly what all I will need. I know I need the tank, filter, heater, thermometer, and hydrometer, and marine salts, but what else is required for every salt water tank? Would I absolutely need to get a protein skimmer? Any help would be great thanks guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigA Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hey guys, I am curious into possibly setting up a tank in the near future for salt water, but don't know exactly what all I will need. I know I need the tank, filter, heater, thermometer, and hydrometer, and marine salts, but what else is required for every salt water tank? Would I absolutely need to get a protein skimmer? Any help would be great thanks guys!!! As far as a skimmer, I would say it depends on the size and bioload of your tank. If it's a 20gal with 1 clown and some polyps, you can probably make do with just water changes. If it's a 75gal, stocked to the brim with SPS, a skimmer is a definite need. You will also need good lights. These will depend more on the depth of the tank than the amount of water it holds. In deeper tanks, light has a harder time penetrating to the bottom layers of the tank, and therfore more intense lighting is needed. You will also need a powerhead or two for extra flow. To successfully keep some types of inverts (some corals, anemones) you need to have quite a bit of flow to successfully keep them alive. I have a flow rate between 10x-15x the size of my tank, and I am not quite sure that it is enough. The 1 other thing I would recommend is a good timer. This will enable you to keep an exact lighting schedule which is very beneficial to coral growth. It will also help to minimize (I say minimize because you are guaranteed to get some) the amount of bad algae growth in the tank. If the timer as enough programmable sockets, plug in a powerhead or two. Then you can alternate the direction of the flow in the tank. This will help keep things looking natural and soft corals like Xenia really benefit from it as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 What you need really depends on what type of SW tank you want. FO -fish only, FOWLR - fish only with live rock, or a reef tank. For FO you will need the basics which you already listed. For FOWLR I would lose the filter and get a couple powerheads instead. The live rock will be your main source of filtration. It's when you get to a reef tank that you really need to worry about lighting and water flow. Now you have to decide if you want softies (which are easy) or SPS and clams (which require much more light and flow). For softies PC lights will suffice. But for SPS and clams you need either T5HO with good reflectors, metal halide or one of those ridiculously expensive LED array fixtures. Depending on the size of the tank, a skimmer might not be a bad idea. You could get away without one in a smaller tank if you do more frequent water changes. Speaking of water changes, don't forget a big bucket, heater and powerhead for pre-mixing new saltwater. Also, a refractometer is much more accurate and precise than a hydrometer. My final piece of advice is to be patient. A SW tank takes much longer to cycle and mature than a FW tank. I've seen tanks crash from people stocking too quickly and it is not pretty. So take your time and do as much research as you can before you jump in. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thanks for the info guys. Since I have never done SW before, I might be looking into buying one of those nano cubes. I don't plan on getting much for my first set up. I was thinking a couple of small hardy fish and maybe some live rock to start off with. And we will see how successful I am with that. I certainly don't plan on over stocking, rather under stocking. I do know about cycling FW aquariums, since I do have 13 FW tanks lol, is it the same idea in cycling a SW tank? So the live rock will act kind of like a filter would, and take in particles that float in the water? I have heard that you want some algae growing in your tank as well, is this true? Are there any fish and live rock you guys would recommend for any beginner SW keeper? At this time I do keep mostly cichlids, including ones like discus, so I am definitely not a beginner fish keeper and take the time in trying to properly care for my fish. Eventually I would plan on getting about a 100 gallon tank for fish and reef, but for now I will stick with the lower maintenance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Nanocubes and other such all-in-one systems are great if you want a simple FOWLR tank. You can even keep softies with no problems. However, if you do want SPS then the upgrades will be costly. Either way, get the largest model that you can afford. Bigger is definitely easier. Ditch the sponges and bio-balls that come with the tank, they turn into nitrate producing factories which is a bad thing for a reef tank. The live rock will handle the biological filtration. You will want at least 1 lbs of rock for every gallon of water. If you do use a sponge for mechanical filtration, make sure to rinse it at least every couple of days under hot tap water. As far as cycling the tank here is a rough guideline: 1. Mix the saltwater (use RO/DI water for best results) in your tank and plug in all filters, powerheads and heaters. Let that run for a couple of days to make sure that the SG (specific gravity) and temp are good. 2. Remove 1/3 of the water and set aside then add your live rock to the tank. If using sand, add it in after the rock. Top off tank with the reserved water. 3. Let tank cycle until ammonia and nitrite readings are 0. This will take 4-6 weeks. During this time top off the tank with fresh RO/DI water as needed to maintain the SG (water evaporates, salt doesn't). 4. Perform your first water change to bring down the nitrates. For a small tank I think 10-25% every week is recommended. 5. Slowly begin stocking your tank. Usually the clean up crew comes first, followed by the fish. Whether you cycle with the lights on or off is up to you. Either way you will go through several stages of nuisance algae. Lights on just gets it out of the way sooner. Also, stocking rules for SW are different than FW. In a 24G Nanocube, I wouldn't stock more than 3 small fish. This thread has some good info on fish suitable for smaller tanks: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74703. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshog Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Poohbah is giving good info. I started with a 24 gal nanocube, I wouldn't do that again. The only thing left stock on the tank is the glass. I've switched to topless with an AquaC Remora skimmer, and a Currents Sunpod 150w MH. The stock pump has been switched out for a MJ 1200 and two Koralia nano's added. I'd save the money and start with stock 33gal buy some good t-5's or halides, and an Aquaclear 110 for mechanical, chemical filtration. The AC can also be divided up and used for a refugium to house your macroalgae. The cubes are stylish and nice looking, but a standard tank will get you into the salt game for less money and allow you more equipment options. Check out canreef.com and nano-reef.com for lots of good info on salt and smaller tanks. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 bosshog - where did you get your 150W Sunpod and , if you don't mind my asking, how much was it? I actually just got my hands on a cheap 24G Nanocube and am planning a set-up similar to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshog Posted July 11, 2008 Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 I got my Sunpod from Kelly at The Reef Shoppe. It's a 20" unit with 6 white led's and 6 blues. I've only had it for a couple of weeks. I'm pretty happy with it. The led's make a really nice moonlight reef display. The fan isn't too loud, it's in our living room and can be heard but isn't annoying. It's no louder than the Remora. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted July 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2008 Thanks Poohbah, that is definitely great info. If it is not worth getting a nano cube, unless for a really great price, I can go the regular tank route. I can always use one of my current tanks for one as well if needed. Can you use canister filters on SW? So for sand, is it best to use aragonite? Are clown fish hard to care for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshog Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 The all in ones are alright tanks. I like mine, but if I was going to do it again I wouldn't buy one. When I started out I thought it might be an easy way to get started, which it was. I've upgraded it so many times that it wasn't worth it to me. What are you planning to keep in the tank, for liverock and a couple clowns it would be fine. I'm keeping some SPS and will be trying a clam in the near future, so I need way more light and flow than the stock unit had. You may want to try BB sand can become a nitrate factory if not cared for properly. As for the canister I have no experience with it, do some research and I'm sure you will find your answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 Thanks Poohbah, that is definitely great info. If it is not worth getting a nano cube, unless for a really great price, I can go the regular tank route. I can always use one of my current tanks for one as well if needed. Can you use canister filters on SW? So for sand, is it best to use aragonite? Are clown fish hard to care for? If you are going the FOWLR route then I'd get a couple in-tank powerheads for water movement and an Aquaclear HOB filter if you want to run mechanical/chemical filtration. HOB filters are easier than canisters to remove the sponge every couple days for cleaning. Aragonite sand is what I've used and works great. I get the Caribsea AragAlive brand. Not that live sand is important, the critters in your live rock will eventually make their way into the sand anyways. Ocellaris clowns are easy to care for and are a great beginner fish. Try to get tank bred specimens if possible as they are generally tougher. Don't let a store talk you into damsels for your first fish. They are tough as nails and easy to care for but can be aggressive to other fish and are a pain to remove from a tank if you decide you no longer want it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 12, 2008 Report Share Posted July 12, 2008 The all in ones are alright tanks. I like mine, but if I was going to do it again I wouldn't buy one. When I started out I thought it might be an easy way to get started, which it was. I've upgraded it so many times that it wasn't worth it to me. What are you planning to keep in the tank, for liverock and a couple clowns it would be fine. I'm keeping some SPS and will be trying a clam in the near future, so I need way more light and flow than the stock unit had. You may want to try BB sand can become a nitrate factory if not cared for properly. As for the canister I have no experience with it, do some research and I'm sure you will find your answers. You make a good point, sand can become a problem if it goes anaerobic. Keep your sandbed less than 2" deep to help avoid this. As for upgrades, I agree that it can get costly. The stock powerhead pretty much should get upgraded immediately. Most people use a Maxijet 1200. I'll be running a MJ1200 in addition to a Koralia 1 for a total flow rate of about 30x per hour. And expect to spend in the neighbourhood of $300+ if you get bitten by the SPS/clam bug and need to upgrade to MH lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 I have heard of people keeping little tiny 1 gallon tanks with only smaller things in it. If I were to try this method, just to see how it goes, what on earth can I put in it? Are tall tanks or long tanks better suited for SW? I am thinking of buying about a 30G tank in the future somewhere, just the tank and maybe stand alone. No hood, because I wanted to automatically put my own lighting on it. To prevent upgrading later on I prefer to get all the equipment I will need to begin with for it. I might eventually try coral but definitely not right now. So my plans for now are the tank, some crushed coral sand or aragonite, about 30lbs of live rock, and eventually a couple of Ocellaris clowns. I will as well buy a couple of power heads, an HOB filter, probably the aquaclear 70, and appropriate lighting. Is it better to get the hood for the tank, or should I use a completely different lighting system? Is there anything else you can recommend for a beginner, and with the things I have listed? I want simple things, so preferably another fish or 2. I am so used to freshwater tanks, I am almost terrified of screwing a SW tank up. Thanks for all your help so far guys. I really appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm Posted July 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 So I was just reading a ton of websites on live rock and the ocellaris clown fish. I will probably end up buying a bunch of base rock on top of the live rock. Where is the best and cheapest place to get it in Calgary? If wanting 30lbs of live rock in the end, what ratio of base to live rock should I consider. I am in no rush with this tank, so if the tank takes a little longer to cycle, that is no problem. I will only buy one clown fish at first too, I read it is bad to keep different clown species together, and either I will need to keep a pair of clowns or just 1. I don't know how easy they are to breed, but I don't need any baby clowns any time soon after getting them. Will it be safe though in the future to add another clown? Man so many things to remember. SW is definitely more complex than FW. Will I have to use RO water, or is tap safe to use? If so, what is the safest and best ways to get the parameters such as pH back up to where they should be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegrandpoohbah Posted July 16, 2008 Report Share Posted July 16, 2008 Use RO water for best results. The salt mix and aragonite sand will buffer the pH up to where it needs to be. Also, don't bother with a small pico tank. They are MUCH more difficult to keep than a larger tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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