Quetzalcoatl Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I have met some doctors (PhDs) that lack any useful intelligence, and that are nothing but arrogant ignorant idiots. Many PhDs are just unintelligent people able to solve basic problems, memorize text books and get through the crappy educational system of the first world by using their students to do the actual research and write their papers. Many of the most successful innovators and business men in our world didn't even finish a bachelors degree. You cannot judge the intelligence and creativity of a man based on ridiculous titles invented by our society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewels Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 . he also indicates that water changes (the subject of this thread) is not necessary to be a good hobbyist. it actually takes good husbandry to get to that point. I have been known to go a month or more without waterchanges in planted tanks. There are repercussions. There is no solution in dilution. With only water evaping out the system, every thing else is left behind. Over time there are measurable escalations. most obviously - tannins. Water clarity decreases water hardens. 900 ppm is highest I have observed. A 4.5 fold increase from the tap. Ph rises - relates to the effects of Ph on ammonia toxicity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Posted August 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 I have met some doctors (PhDs) that lack any useful intelligence, and that are nothing but arrogant ignorant idiots. Many PhDs are just unintelligent people able to solve basic problems, memorize text books and get through the crappy educational system of the first world by using their students to do the actual research and write their papers. Many of the most successful innovators and business men in our world didn't even finish a bachelors degree. You cannot judge the intelligence and creativity of a man based on ridiculous titles invented by our society. it's obvious that you regret the way you chose your social circle. however, this topic is tom barr's non-co2 method, and his light limiting growth management method. so if you want to vent, start your own topic. i promise i'll listen. I have been known to go a month or more without waterchanges in planted tanks. There are repercussions. There is no solution in dilution. With only water evaping out the system, every thing else is left behind. Over time there are measurable escalations. most obviously - tannins. Water clarity decreases water hardens. 900 ppm is highest I have observed. A 4.5 fold increase from the tap. Ph rises - relates to the effects of Ph on ammonia toxicity regular w/c has always been the fool-proof way to manage the "every thing else" that gets left behind. ei is not concerned with dosing beyond uptake because weekly w/c is part of the regiment. regular w/c doesn't require the hobbyist to do something about the problems you list, so the hobbyist doesn't have to figure them out. ignorance isn't bliss in tom's non-co2 and light limiting methods. the hobbyist must think about where the "every thing else" comes from and how to control those influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quetzalcoatl Posted August 1, 2012 Report Share Posted August 1, 2012 Nature works by doing frequent water changes. Lakes that get not new water turn toxic for fish and plants, and extremely salty. There are a few of these lakes around the world that eventually will dry out. So, a hobbyist doing frequent water changes is just imitating nature, not avoiding to deal with the mysteries of stagnant water. Some lakes accumulate and trap toxic chemicals at their base. Scientist also have found that under the sea carbon dioxide is stored. When these chemicals are finally released they can seriously harm all living creatures. There was a case in africa where people just fell death with no explanation. After some research scientist conclude that the cause of their death was a lake that released a toxic cloud. Nature is Chaotic and changes all the time. The idea of creating an environment with living creatures that never changes and that is extremely stable is not realistic. There is no way for people to control the "everything else". People cannot even control their own bodies, heath, or mind.... In my fish tanks, plants grow, fish are happy but I am very very far from controlling the "everything" that takes place in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jewels Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 . he also indicates that water changes (the subject of this thread) is not necessary to be a good hobbyist. it actually takes good husbandry to get to that point. . however, this topic is tom barr's non-co2 method, and his light limiting growth management method. regular w/c has always been the fool-proof way to manage the "every thing else" that gets left behind. ei is not concerned with dosing beyond uptake because weekly w/c is part of the regiment. regular w/c doesn't require the hobbyist to do something about the problems you list, so the hobbyist doesn't have to figure them out. ignorance isn't bliss in tom's non-co2 and light limiting methods. the hobbyist must think about where the "every thing else" comes from and how to control those influences. Yah,, I was tagging along; but you lost me. So - water changes, you for or against them ? Furthermore these "everything elses" are not mysteries, there are natural products/byproducts that occur through logical or physiological functions. Water evaporates - leaves behind its hardness. I am not a Doctor ( or an arrogant ignorant idiot) but I do enjoy the odd alliteration; and I certainly know what water scale looks like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubr0ke Posted August 3, 2012 Report Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) blah... Edited August 3, 2012 by ubr0ke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okotoks Posted August 13, 2012 Report Share Posted August 13, 2012 My 29 gallon shrimp tank hasnt had a water change in 6 months. I have 3 centimetres of fluval shrimp substrate. Plants are a full carpet of echinodorus tennelus and a pile of shoots of spiral val in the back hiding the hoses and filter pipes. I add a cap of nutrafin plant-gro every second week as well as a DIY CO2 bubbling through a powerhead. Everything is bright green with the odd small brownish tip on the val. Shrimp colony is too large to count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Yah,, I was tagging along; but you lost me. So - water changes, you for or against them ? i don't take a partisan position on water change. my intent is to bring the reason why water changes are done to the fore. regular w/c has always been the fool-proof way to manage the "every thing else" that gets left behind. ei is not concerned with dosing beyond uptake because weekly w/c is part of the regiment. regular w/c doesn't require the hobbyist to do something about the problems you list, so the hobbyist doesn't have to figure them out. ignorance isn't bliss in tom's non-co2 and light limiting methods. the hobbyist must think about where the "every thing else" comes from and how to control those influences. Furthermore these "everything elses" are not mysteries, there are natural products/byproducts that occur through logical or physiological functions. Water evaporates - leaves behind its hardness. I am not a Doctor ( or an arrogant ignorant idiot) but I do enjoy the odd alliteration; and I certainly know what water scale looks like. the "every thing else" i was referring to is from ei overdose; the logical byproduct of adding what isn't physiologically required by the tank inhabitants. water hardness is caused by metal bicarbonates, sulphates and chlorides. which of these do you presume are a natural product/byproduct of any other function than fine motor skill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 My 29 gallon shrimp tank hasnt had a water change in 6 months. I have 3 centimetres of fluval shrimp substrate. Plants are a full carpet of echinodorus tennelus and a pile of shoots of spiral val in the back hiding the hoses and filter pipes. I add a cap of nutrafin plant-gro every second week as well as a DIY CO2 bubbling through a powerhead. Everything is bright green with the odd small brownish tip on the val. Shrimp colony is too large to count. lighting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelsea Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 Nature works by doing frequent water changes. this occurs through evaporation and land run off when it rains. chaos occurs when this order is either subdued or interupted. The idea of creating an environment with living creatures that never changes and that is extremely stable is not realistic. so did you find this printed on a cereal box top or a double-bubble comic maybe? The best low tech cheap planted tank is setup in a few simple steps: 1. Get some soil from a local creek, river or pond. 2. Pour water in a tank with the soil next to a window exposed to sun light. 3. Put some sturdy plants, if possible from the same creek, river or pond. 4. Add some little sturdy fish (fatheads, endlers, goldfish) and pest snails. 5. An air pump and you are set Watch your plants and fish grow, reproduce and live happy seems you rely on what's stable in nature more than you give yourself credit for. i bet you count on the sun rising every morning, and water flowing out of the tap when you turn the tap on. Nature is Chaotic and changes all the time. The idea of creating an environment with living creatures that never changes and that is extremely stable is not realistic. how many times do you move your dishes and sliverware? how many times do you paint your house or change cable or internet provider? families, hobbyists, even you can point to stable elements in life that you count on. when those things are interupted you get anxious. once in a while normalcy is interupted. but normalcy is the goal. nature is quite predictable, as you already dmonstrated. that's what informs us what normal is. predictability is precisely why the ei index/water change regiment works. environments that never change and extremely stable is realistic and desirable. There is no way for people to control the "everything else". People cannot even control their own bodies, heath, or mind.... In my fish tanks, plants grow, fish are happy but I am very very far from controlling the "everything" that takes place in there. if it is not possible for people to "control everything else" then barr's no/low w/c method would not work. but it does. your plants and your fish live because nature is predictable. you don't have to control anything because regular w/c accounts for what you don't control. your tank will remain stable, until you decide to do something different. that's not called unrealistic, that's called boredom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted December 27, 2012 Report Share Posted December 27, 2012 Thanks for bringing this article of Tom Barr's to the fore Chelsea. Instead of being a champion of one method, this guy distills the difference between two different approaches, to one simple point... and leaves the decision making to the reader. A member here brought the same Tom Barr article to my attention several months ago, then vanished. I can guess why. Merry Christmas Chelsea, if you're still around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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