RD.

Yes, I'm sure you'd have much better success with that big male in a larger tank.

Yes, I'd be interested in seeing some pics. Good luck with the breeding.

Cpt - FYI BTW - for those that aren't familar with OB peacocks, being that they are a hybrid mix with various species involved, one can never be certain (when buying unknown juvies) what their max size will be, or their aggression levels. Some are quite calm & max out in the 4-5" range, and some get much larger & can be quite aggressive. I've seen examples of both.

You can follow the barometric shifts here: http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/c...es/CAAB0049.htm and the moon phases can be found here: http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/index....2004&country=27

IMO 84.5 is way too high for a constant temp for fish from Lake Malawi. The higher the metabolism, the more they eat, the faster they grow, the sooner they die. The average 'surface' temperature of Lake Malawi ranges from 23ºC to 28ºC. (73.4°F to 82.4°F) In the dry season surface temps in certain portions of the lake can drop as low as 20ºC, and in the rainy season sheltered bays can rise above 30ºC. In an aquarium, 77-79°F (25ºC to 26ºC) is a good temp to keep them at year round. There are a number of tricks to induce spawning, lowering the temp by a few degrees (which can be done via a water change) and allowing it to increase slowly, will sometimes work. IMO I would stay away from bloodworms. When you removed the sub dom male, how long did you remove him for? Also, what size of tank were these fish previously in? There's supposed to be a storm moving in this sunday, so sat night might be a good time to perform a large water change. Then sit back & see what happens.

As previously mentioned, all OB peacocks are hybrids, it is a man made strain that does not exist in the wild. The origin of this species is just that, fish soup.

Nice looking fish, and an unusual color for an OB peacock.

Nice looking fish!

Marineland has a FAQ page on Bio-Spira, here: http://www.marineland.com/cus_faq.asp] The higher the temp it is stored at, the less of a shelf life it will have. Marineland states 1 year @ 50F, but even if stored in a non refrigerated state it should last approx 6 months. (from the date it was made) Q: Does BIO-Spira® need to be refrigerated? A: BIO-Spira® is an active bacteria culture. Refrigeration provides the optimal long-term storage. If BIO-Spira® is left out of the refrigerator at room-temperature, it will still perform at optimal conditions. However, it is best to return BIO-Spira® to refrigeration when possible. Use the following as a guide: a. Long Term Storage (1 year): 50°F (10°C) b. Mid Term Storage (6 months): 39°F-87°F (4°C-31°C)

Nice looking fish, Tom.

Thanks Tom & Sara, good info for down the road.

It's impossible to know with 100% certainty if those 3 fish came from the same spawn, but it's possible. The males shown in the first two pics are pretty scary looking, but pretty much in line with what I've seen around these parts for the past few years. You don't see black in the body portion of labs in the wild, and you shouldn't see it in tank raised fish either. It's an ugly undesirable trait, that unfortunately has been fixed in many lines. The last fish may be a female (do you know?), but that fish also appears to have weak submarginal black banding in the dorsal fin. Perhaps it's just the photo, but the dorsal fin looks off to me. If it came from the same spawn, I wouldn't use it as a breeder either, as it will most likely carry the same allele for the dark markings, and if paired up with another fish that carries this allele, the resulting males have a strong chance of looking like the two "dirty" males shown in your post. If you have two fish with a recessive allele (gene) there is a better chance that the fry will show that recessive trait. In order to truly judge the quality of a yellow lab, it needs to be at least 1 1/2 years old (3-4"), at which time you can see exactly what qualities it has. This doesn't mean that the fish isn't carrying any recessive genes for certain non desirable traits, but if you can pair it up with a quailty adult female, you have a good chance of having the majority of your fry turn out like the parents. If they throw a few duds, then they should be culled, not passed off to the LFS, fish auctions, etc. People ask me what a good yellow lab should look like, and I show them the photo below. This is a rather rare shot of a trio of L. caeruleus "Lion's Cove" taken by Ad Konings. When buying juvies it's impossible to know what they will turn out like until they gain some size & mature, but if you can get a group that look close to the wild trio shown above, then at least you're off to a good start.

Kyle's home base is Medicine Hat, but I believe that he might still be working out of Calgary? If you're looking to add some quality genes to your current lab strain, I highly recommend his fish.

Tom was asking me about this today, so I'm bumping this back up for him. Although 'some' black in the face/head area is quite normal in male labs, black in the body area, or permanent dark barring, is NOT normal, and is the result of poor breeding practices. Mostly this can be traced back to the massive fish farms in Florida who breed for quantity, and not quality. The end result is that over time some of these non desirable traits have become fixed. It's also quite common to see tank raised adult yellow labs that are 6-7" long, yet in the wild they only average 3-4". IMO the large size is another undesirable trait that should be frowned upon by breeders. Some line bred strains have been bred to remove all traces of black in the face/head, but this is the result of selective breeding practices, not superior genetics. Some people feel that "dirty water" will cause blackening of yellow labs, but this is pure nonsense. My sub dom male will show black splotchy patches on his body at times, as will one of the adult females, and my water is about as pristine as it gets, with nitrates never exceeding 10 PPM. Also, keep in mind that this species can turn the black on & off in their anal & pelvic fins, as well as barring on their sides, just like a lot of the various other Malawi species. Stress, relative size compared to its tank mates, breeding, water parameters, can all affect how a yellow lab looks in an aquarium. Just like any other Mbuna, the dom fish of both sexes will always look the best. The nice thing about monomorphic species such as yellow labs is that both the males & females can show equally good color at all times.

My F1 labs came from a member of this forum, who I had hooked up with previously on another forum. His ID is African_Fever, and he's a great guy, with some great fish. Kyle spent 5 months on Lake Malawi interning under Stuart Grant, and was in the boat when the parents of my fish were caught, so there's no doubt as to their lineage. Kyle also spoke at the 2003 cichlid convention in Edmonton about his time on Lake Malawi, but unfortunately I missed the presentation.

Unless a fish gobbles up their food & swallows it whole (which most labs don't do) there will be no swelling of the food "inside" of the fish. Even large pellets are broken up long before they reach the digestive tract of a fish. Having said that, an improper diet can bring on bloat conditions, which is caused by a sudden increase of internal pathogens. (ie sudden stress) Too much food, the wrong type of food (such as frozen krill/shrimp for strict herbivores), etc, can cause gastrointestinal problems, but floating foods that contain large amounts of air, fed in moderation, will usually not cause any issues with Africans.

.... that would depend on the species of peacock? If you were considering any of the jacobfreibergi variants, don't. Personally I'd add a couple more labs & call it good.

Thanks Valerie. I currently have 3 tanks (55, 29, and a 25) , with a total of 25 labs, all in various stages of growth, which involves 3 different line bred strains, and a group of 10 F1's. The tank shown above is a 55 G, and now holds 13 labs, and 5 S. petricola, but I plan on adding the adult female shown above, and hopefully down the road a couple of males from her future offspring. The plan has always been to only breed unrelated fish, and only the best labs that I could find. With a species such as yellow labs you wouldn't think that would be too difficult to achieve, but this has been in the works for going on 2 years now. I know some people find yellow labs ho-hum, yawn, booooring, but IMO they are still the most beautiful fish in Lake Malawi.

Hey Dean, the dom male is nicer, trust me, but this female is nice. :hey: I've still got the new female in a 29 G. I think she needs to gain some strength from her last holding session before I introduce her to her new mate. Another pic of the dom male.

and a few more ........ adult female on top (with buggered eye), sub dom male on bottom close up of holding female

Just some random shots from my L. caeruleus tank. my dom male female F1 male F1 recently acquired adult female (who's holding in this pic)

Hey Tom, where are you getting the Bio-Spira from? Don't they have to ship that packed in dry ice? Should be a nice mix of blue & yellow.......

The Met soaked food is usally recommended for the fish in the main tank that are still eating, as any fish showing early signs of bloat are usually refusing food. (often times accompanied with long clear stringy feces) The idea is that the Met will save the pathogens from spreading to your healthy fish, as entire tanks can be lost if the pathogens spread to the rest of the fish. Any fish with a sore gut, full of parasites, will not be eating, in which case the best course of action is to remove the fish to a QT tank, and treat it with Clout. At the same time you want to treat the healthy fish with Met soaked food (just in case), as well as keep the substrate clean to avoid contamination form any pathogens that remained with the sick fishes feces.

What most people fail to realize, is that "bloat" is a symptom, not a disease itself. If a fish has internal parasites to the point that it causes an overload on their system, "bloat" is usually one of the final stages of the disease, at which time most fish cannot be saved. (as there is now internal organ damage) If in fact your fish was bloated from internal parasites, it would not be eating, and would most likely be hiding out behind a rock etc, looking pale & very sickly. It's been my experience that with regards to "bloat", yellow labs are one of the least affected Malawi fish. The ones you really have to watch out for are the fish that are strict herbivores (due to their stomach design), as well as some strains of peacocks which have weak immune systems. With these fish, any amount of stress (such as improper diet, aggression, poor water conditions, etc) can cause the internal pathogens to multiply at a rapid state, which in turn brings on the bloat conditions.

I agree with David, if this fish is eating, it's "lump" is not related to internal parasites (which cause bloat), and there's a good chance that it's a female that's getting ready to drop some eggs. Metronidazole is a rather safe med to use, and overall causes very little stress on a fish, but from what you've described it would be a total waste of money.