Cgy_Betta_Guy

I can confirm that use of an under gravel heater (UGH) cable doesnt give 'much' discernable difference in plant growth. Being new to the hobby about 4 months ago I was doing research online and decided to 'test' a cable since I was going to be starting ground up with a new tank and figured it wouldnt hurt to give it a shot. After typing this I realize that not only has it killed quite a bit of time on a lazy friday at work (yipeee!) but this is also quite long winded so if you want to jump to the last paragraph summary and skip my 'not so scientific but trying to sound geeky even though I smrt like rock' experimentation methodology please do so now... :P Before I go further let me just say I know this is not the most scientific method so dont slag me but feel free to comment or suggest some other way I could test it better if I ever have to rip down the tank and start from ground zero. I hopefully wont ever need to but it would be nice to have something in mind should it ever happen. I setup the cable on half of my tank and positioned 3 amazon swords of similar leaf sizes(width and length), plant height and root length and size across the back of the tank... one in each corner of equal distance from the glass corners and one right in the middle. All were planted in same depth of substrate. The sword in the middle was meant to be kind of a control but obviously it gets much more light being in the center of the tank and under both the canopy lights. Anyways, the 2 swords in either corner were pretty much the same size after a couple months with the heated UGH side seeming to be a tiny bit fuller in leaf growth(wider leaves) while my middle sword simply got huge in both leaf dimensions. At one point I had to remove my background to clean out some moisture that had gotten in between and noticed that the roots against the glass for the UGH plant 'seemed' to go a bit deeper and had more smaller tendrils extended. The plant in the center just plain had a huge root system visible. I have 2 different varieties of crypts planted on either side as well, Wendtii 'Mi Oya' on the UGH and I think its a Wendtii 'Tropica' on the non heated side. The Tropica seemed to grow much more full and dense while the Mi Oya seemed to struggle a bit even though it is slightly more to the center of the tank andthus more light. From what I can see along the glass on both sides for these 2 plants seems to indicate that the Mi Oya roots run much deeper and thicker than the Tropica which really doesnt seem to have much root system visible at all. Because these are 2 different variants of the crypt, I cant attribute the roots being better to the substrate heating but it certainly doesnt seem to hurt given my observations of the sword roots. Remember though that these observations are of roots that are visible against the glass. About a month ago I decided to start a DIY CO2 setup and bought a diffuser off ebay and placed it in the back left corner where there is no undergravel heating. Since then, the swords on that side (non heated and right next to CO2 source) increased in size and has far outstripped the UGH plant in all dimensions. The leaves are now long enough that they reach the water surface while the plant on the right is still roughly 5-6 inches from the water surface. The center plant has had many many many prunings. The DIY CO2 seems to fluctuate too much for my liking so I have contemplated whether or not to go to a cannister or simply remove it altogether. Another thing about the UGH... I do notice that during WCs that it kicks in so I think it probably helps to heat the water in the tank quicker as well as provide 'some' vertical heating currents. Also I just thought of this from casual observations but I seem to see more MTS on the UGH side but this could just be my imagination. So long story short... under gravel heating 'might' help leaf growth a tiny bit and rooting of the plants based on my very simplistic 'roots against the glass' observations, but the better investment of the 100+ bucks that you might spend on a UGH would definitely be better spent on lighting and probably a good CO2 source of some sort.

I have shrimp in my main tank... 4 Red crystal and 2 that were tagged as algae eating shrimp. I have yet to lose any of the red crystals which are about the same size as the cherry to other fish which includes a male and female betta but my tank is very heavily planted. I also just bought a bunch of red cherry shrimp that are in my breeding tank with my endlers. The endlers dont pay any attention to the shrimps at all and the shrimp have so far not been observed to go after any of the betta or endler fry I have in the tank. My plan is to try to breed the cherrys but so far I have not seen any of the females egg up but then again I dont know what I am looking for when it comes to pregnant shrimp

Cool.. thanks for replying. The fry that made it do seem to be in great health and are very strong swimmers and seem to like to school together at the surface... I have a few betta fry in there with them and its interesting to watch the bettas attempt to follow the endler fry which are half their size around the tank. Playing with the neighborhood kids I guess. As for the mother she is looking very very thin after giving birth but seems to be gaining some weight back as she slowly starts to eat more. I am actually not sure if I really stressed her out much when I moved her. As per my usual procedure, I put the net in and let her swim up above it and slowly put the net up and around her... she didnt even act crazy or anything when she was in the air for the 2 secs or when I put her in the other tank. She simply looked around then swam out of the net and started nibbling on a java fern I have in the breeding tank. I am planning on leaving the endlers in the breeder tank so I guess I will have to see if she has any still borns the next time or not. I wonder if its an indication of how healthy the livebearer might be.

I have 2f/1m endler since May and finally decided to move them into my quarantine/breeding 15 gallon last night since one of the females was a bit plump... within a few hours she had popped out a couple fry and I now have 16 healthy fry schooling together in the tank. Too bad I hadn't done this earlier when I still had a good breeding stock of 3 males and 4 females. 2 of the males disappeared one day (no bodies evident) and 2 of the females just died for whatever reason. They have been pregnant before but I never moved them to another tank. My question here is that I noticed that near the end of her labor she popped out 4 still born /unfertilized fetuses. Is this normal for the endler or other livebearing fish or did my moving her while carrying cause her to prematurely drop before she was ready and the fry were fully developed?

My experience with mondo grass was in 2 small 3L betta tanks a coworker and I have at the office that we had consistently been doing water changes on every 3-4 days. It looked great for a few months and then a few leaves would yellow and die off and then I noticed a white cottony growth that I think was some sort of fungus spreading from its roots out across the gravel in one of the tanks. It looked very similar to a bacterial bloom but grew out in a hexagonal grid like pattern almost like webbing. It happened about a month later in the other tank so we decided to toss them rather than risk something nasty affecting the fish.

My setup is actually a tank my brother used long ago that I brought it out of retirement to be used for my water changes. I fill the tank up with fresh water from the tap and preheat it for my 30 gallon tank and add any additives to it such as liquid fertilizers and dechlorinator the day before I do a water change and use a powerhead to transfer it into the main tank. The canister filter was a backup filter I decided to buy since it was on sale but it stays on the 15. I figured the tank could be used as a hospital/quarantine/breeder tank whenever I need it and ts been put to great use so far. Thanks, I might take you up on your offer for the MW... it might save me some time and help me feed the kids as they get bigger.

I think my pair are good to go again... the female is plump and the male chases her around my main tank. They do eat quite well in that tank so maybe that helps them get frisky. I am feeding a tiny pinch of Hikari first bites which is that powdery stuff that floats on the surface as well as Ocean Nutrition Instant Baby Brine Shrimp in a bottle to feed them. I bought the bbs in a bottle cuz I wasnt expecting the breeding to happen as quick as it did and I was in a bit of a panic about what I could get to feed them. I am currently putting in 3 drops of this into the tank and it eventually settles onto the bottom. At the beginning I used a bit less since it seemed to accumulate at the bottom and start rotting and would have to use my mag float to kind of push as much of the accumulation together and use the turkey baster to suck it out. Some of the fry are a bit bigger now and they seem to be able to pick at it through out the day and not so much is left over by the time I get home from work. Its a bit expensive but seems to be decent. I do want to grow some micro worms but I think I need to get a culture of it first? I have noticed that as they get bigger there are a lot of defective fry... bent spines, missing tails, pointed tails etc. I have had issues keeping the bottom as clean as I can cuz I dont like to stick my hand into the tank constantly hence the mag float and turkey baster so I am wondering if the defectives are genetic or caused by bacteria from rotting food. I think I would need to refer to one of the more experienced breeders about that. My setup is currently a 15 gallon tank filled to about 3 inches to the top with a canister filter and heater attached. I am using a portion of netting/paint strainer from hardware store that costs a couple bucks wrapped around the inflow. Also have an air stone suctioned to the front bottom corner opposite my filter outflow but didnt really start using it until about 2 weeks ago when they fry are supposed to start developing the labrynthe lung. I have 3 cuttings from stem plants (1 water wisteria and 2 hygrophilia polysperma) stuck into a small cup of fluorite in the middle of my tank and also have lots of watermoss (salvinia natans I think it is) floating around the surface. The fry seem to either stick around the bottom or hang out at the top amongst the plants so I figured the water moss was a good addition to make them a bit more secure. I dropped 3 large malaysian trumpet snails into the tank in week 2 to help clean up some of the junk on the bottom and now have about 20 in there so now I know I can breed them quite easily... hehe

I was just curious how your fry are doing as I was looking to see how mine are doing in comparison since they are pretty close in age. I have a bunch conceived on my first attempt by a male veil and a female crown tail on June 6 and hatched June 8 so they are about 6 weeks in age now. I would estimate at least 200-300 eggs were laid and hatched with steady decrease in numbers as time has passed. I estimate I am now down to about 30 fry and seem to be getting at least one fry (of whatever size) showing up dead on a daily basis. They all seem to be doing well when I check up on them through out the day so not sure what is causing the individual deaths but at least its working in my favor in reducing the population. Right now they are quite varied in size and the tank water chemistry is fine and I am just hoping I have a bunch of them survive to adulthood.

here is one with the flash... shows some color to the "white stuff" ... maybe some sort of algae?

Here are the pictures of what might be hydra: and the pics of my java ferns that seem to be going dead from the rhizome up: Let me know what your opinions are. FYI I am entering into the 2nd week of the nitrite to nitrate portion of my cycle with daily additions of 2 ml of ammonia and the heat turned up a bit to 27 degrees. Dosed the tank with fluorish excel according to the label instructions at the beginning of the cycle about 2 weeks ago and have since only added half that dosage one time last week.

The white stuff is growing on leaves, wood, equipment and the tank silicon and the water seems to have quite a bit of stuff floating as well as on the surface. They are almost like dust bunny kind of things and I can see some of them against a dark background that they resemble a tree in that they have a trunk which is attached to the surface and have wispy looking branches. They are not very big or tall... maybe about 1-2 mm high. I suppose they could have grown on the wood first and have spread but I didnt really notice. I have 3 large pieces of driftwood in the tank which were boiled prior to placing in the tank. Yeah I was looking at some ottos as an alternative and see if there are any around at the different shops. I will need to do some research on them first. Thanks for the suggestion. Only reason I thought of SAE was cuz I heard they eat more forms of algae than other fish. The java ferns are going translucent from the rhizome and just the bottom third of the leaves ... I am wondering if the problem might have been from over handling them when I was trying to attach them into cracks or tie them down onto the driftwood. I am thinking it is even though there was no outward damage immediately. I will try and get some pics up tonight.

well it seems my fast growing plants are doing great in the tank so far... the Wisteria, Hygrophilia Polysperma and Bacopa Caroliniana are making some nice gains on a daily basis. And my hydrocotyle verticillata seems to be growing nicely foreground despite apparently needing high light requirements. I have now gotten white stuff growing all over and the water is cloudy which apparently is a good thing and typical of a tank cycling. I am also starting to get what I think is brown algae growing on the leaves of my swords and my anubius prompting me to leave the light off day and night. A minor light source is available from a 2 ft wide window above the tank which doesnt have that much light coming in but still not a complete black out of the tank. One of my cryptocoryne (an undulata) is melting away and some of my java ferns are starting to go translucent from the rhizome up. I am hoping this is just the plants adjusting to all the nitrites and bacteria in the water? Dont suppose anyone can tell me ballpark how long the nitrite spike might last? Anyone have opinions on getting a siamese algae eater? wondering how quickly 2 might outgrow this tank? Thanks

My betta seemed honestly dissappointed being back in his little 0.8gallon (3L) tank as he kept swimming around the back then stopping to look out at me then repeating that process. Hopefully he doesnt have any issues with the planned stocking I have for the planted tank so he can join them. Its obvious to me that my twice weekly water changes are not working well for that little tank. probably has something to do with the lousy non aquatic plants that I put in there before doing any reading and research that I bought at Pet-not-so-Smart. I was thinking about getting 2 Siamese Algae Eaters for my tank but realize the SAE can grow to about 15 cm over time... do you think they are too big for my 30 gallon? How fast do they grow anyways? Plans are for 1M/2F sunset gourami (yes I know I may have problems with the betta with these guys), m/f lyretail swords, 8-10 rummy nose tetras, 6-8 panda cory, m/f endlers and possibly 6-8 cardinal tetras if there is room and probably a couple amano or cherry shrimp if I can find them. And of course my 6 Malaysian trumpet snails. My Nitrite spike happened last night so it wont be too much longer! :thumbs:

Actually I moved him in there temporarily while I cleaned out his little 0.8 gallon tank and water change. Probably wasnt a smart thing to do but was convenient at the time since his tank needed a WC... He was in there for about an hour roadtrip and I have since put him back into that little puddle until its safer for him. He seemed pretty agreeable when I put the plastic cup in for him to swim into... and didnt show any affects from the ammonia or nitrites so I dont think any harm was done. I actually tested his little tank and it had a higher concentration of nitrites than my cycling tank. :shock: The way the readings for my cycle are going my tank should be ready in about a week or so at which time he will get to move in.

Haha... I was wondering if anyone would jump on that statement. I am allowing for some growth and actually like the way the tank looks now. I imagine I will get over run eventually. I am a bit concerned about my cryptocoryne undulata though... it seems to have turned significantly brown and the leaves have started melting and dying off. You can see it in the picture behind the little white tower. Could my dosing excel have done this to it ? I have only heard of excel melting vals. It says 5ml/10 gal so I put in 10 ml to be on the low side for my 30 gallon. Also read somewhere crypts... or was that java ferns... sometimes die off and then get stronger once they start to grow in a new tank? my other crypt variants seem to be doing fine as well as the small undulata offshoot that is sitting between the white tower and the rock. <shrug> I like the idea of the silent cycle cuz it lets me put fish in immediately... I pondered if I had enough plants in there to be able to just start placing fish in without cycling. I already moved my male betta in there for fun and he seems to like it and riding my outflow current across the tank. I do want the plants to establish some roots before putting too many fish in there but I am definitely considering dropping 2 Endlers I saw at Als in there. Maybe in a few days.

I managed to snag a couple more bags of Fluorite black over the long weekend so I was able to setup my tank. Didn't think it would take that long but at least its all setup and I think I may have gotten a few too many plants. Hopefully I manage to keep more than half of them alive LOL. After finishing my planting which was pretty close to a full day project, I grabbed my equipment and moved it from a little 15 gallon I had been cycling for a few days to my main. It may have stalled out the cycle as I no longer had any nitrite readings since it was new water. It now seems to have recovered and nitrite is now steadily climbing. here are my readings: 15 gallon dosed with 10ml of ammonia to start April 7 @ 9PM Ammonia 8+ nitrite 0 nitrate not tested April 8 @ 9PM Ammonia 8+ nitrite 0 nitrate not tested April 9 @ 10PM Ammonia 6 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 April 10 @ 11AM Ammonia 4 nitrite 0.12 nitrate 5 April 10 @ 6PM Ammonia 4 nitrite 0.12 nitrate 5 after switching to main 30 gallon with filled canister filter and bringing all decorations and equipment over April 11 @ 1AM Ammonia 2 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 --dosed another 5ml of ammonia after testing April 11 @ 11AM Ammonia 4 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 April 11 @ 11PM Ammonia 3.5 nitrite 0 nitrate 5 April 12 @ 11AM Ammonia 2 nitrite 0.12 nitrate 7-8 April 12 @ 11PM Ammonia 2 nitrite 0.25 nitrate 7-8 April 13 @ 6PM Ammonia 2 nitrite 0.5 nitrate 7-8 --dosed another 3ml of ammonia after testing April 14 @ 2AM Ammonia 4 nitrite 1 nitrate 7-8 pH 7.8 is that level of nitrate right from the start normal or is that something that the plants are contributing to? just seemed odd that it was already at 5 with entirely new water from the tap. But then again I haven't done any tests on tap water. What level of nitrite should I expect to see when it finally peaks? Just wanted to thank everyone for your knowledge transfer as it contributed greatly towards what I have bought for the tank. Cant wait to get some fish in there! and can anyone tell me if this guy is Malaysian? Besides the usual pond snails, I had about 5 of these hitchhikers that were still in the empty bag after 5 days before noticing. He and his friends currently reside in a yogurt container sitting on my table until I decide I want them or not. :smokey:

Ah thanks for the correction Firestorm.

yeah... the color seems to be pretty popular and its been warm out so maybe everyone feels its time to wash gravel outside for their tanks. Certainly makes it easier rinsing stuff outside. Most of the stores down here have plenty of the fluorite dark but no black.

ah thanks.. Edmonton is a bit out of my way since I am in Calgary... thanks anyways.

Nature's?? havent heard of that one... where are they?

I called and they said they had plenty. I specifically asked the gal if it was the gravel not the sand... reply was yes its the gravel and we have plenty... I drove across the city to find that no... it was the sand. GRRR... I asked one of the guys to check the back and he came back with one bag so it wasnt a completely wasted trip.

Dean: yeah I figured that would be a low light tank.. I had thought I would be able to upgrade the bulbs or the canopy later on if needed. right now I have 2 x 20W 6700K bulbs in there. I am wondering if swapping one to a 20W 18000K would help with plant growth? Werner: I had a look at the hydor manual and it says not to plug directly into an electrical outlet. Probably just out to sell the thermostat unit? byte: Do you have that foil inside under the gravel or under your tank? chloeclose: good to get more confirmation that cories wont have issue with the fluorite. I think I am probably going with the black fluorite if I can manage to track down a store here that isnt sold out. thanks all!

Thanks everyone for your responses. Definitely lots of reading involved with starting up a tank. geleen, fishclubgirl: Thanks for the options... something else to consider (like I am not having a hard enough time deciding...) . jvision: At this point I am starting to think easiest is better. Most likely I wont be mixing different substrates... probably going with the fluorite. I have already read that thread and its provided me with some pretty useful info. Thanks! werner: Good to know that corys might not be bothered by the fluorite but I guess maybe its really dependent on the individual fish. Wont know till I get a nice little school of them to see. I checked the prices of some of the substrate heating... its still about 100 bucks for each of the 2 systems I checked out(red sea and hydor)! If that is affordable I am wondering how much they cost when they first came out! Which one are you using? Chances are that I will defer getting one of these units but its not entirely outta the picture yet. My background has both blue and black on either side so if I wanted to change it to black that wont be a problem. Totally depends on what color substrate I finally decide on. I have now seen a few pictures of the fluorite black in tank and its pretty nice looking but dark... I think a blue background might help to keep all the black from being too overwhelming.

Hi Tarolisol, I am new to the entire hobby and I have seen various DIY CO2 setups but never one such as yours... just have a couple quick questions 1) are those regular plumbing fittings on the tops of your bottles that I can get at home depot or rona? I was just at HD and saw something similar but they seemed too big. 2) what is the purpose of the small gatorade bottle that you have the 3 2L bottles hooked up to? Thanks!

Hi there... I am basically 3 days now into the hobby which is when I went out and bought my 31 gallon tank, just under a month if you count putting a couple bettas into their own little 3L tanks. My intention is to start up a planted tank and I have been doing a bit of reading through various forums and wanted some opinions on some substrates and setup that would be appropriate for the tank. Here was my thought process which has ebbed and flowed as much as the water that will soon be in my tank (hopefully).. My initial thinking was to get Fluorite Black for the entire tank but the cost and the quantity I would need is kinda preventing me from going this route. I then moved to thinking about mixing 50/50 Fluorite Black with regular black gravel either mixed in with the Fluorite or layered over top. Then I read some things about Fluorite possibly being a bit harsh for Corys which I am planning on getting. Sooo... I then moved to thinking about Fluorite Black Sand and mixing this 50/50 with some other black sand... then I thought... the black would be pretty harsh... maybe a mix of 50/50 Fluorite Black and Home Depot Play Sand would look better. I have since thought about just using the play sand. I just cant make up my mind.... Anyways, my questions are as follows: 1) what are your opinions / implications about a planted tank with sand? read that some plants will be limited as the sand compacts ( considering Malaysian Trumpet snails to possibly overcome that limitation). I will be doing mostly low light plants such as swords, vals, java ferns, anubias etc.. since I dont have the best lighting on the canopy from the kit. (2 x 20W T8 6700K Life Glo tubes) 2) with a completely planted sand (or gravel) tank, does one just gravel vacuum it to keep it clean or will the various wastes and garbage be absorbed by the plants and grabbed by the filtration? Anything I should be concerned about vacuuming sand? I imagine vacuuming a mature tank is gonna be quite a chore with all the plants everywhere. 3) Fluorite-- is it really that beneficial? I have heard some people say they have tried it with no discernable difference in growth between a normal gravel substrate and a regular gravel substrate where dosing with fertilizers is required and that big gains really only come from CO2. Also how much stuff is stirred up with it after its been in the tank for a period of time? Heard corys like to play in sand... 4) Aesthetically... How does Fluorite Black or Fluorite Black sand look in your tanks? Do you think mixing black sand with play sand would look good (whether it is either Fluorite or non Fluorite)? How about Fluorite Black and Fluorite Dark together? HD play sand? 5) Under gravel /substrate heating - anyone have opinions on this? Only reason I am thinking about this is that the tank is currently bare and it would be easy to put it in now if it was truly beneficial. I have read some articles about it simulating under ground currents that are beneficial but man are some of the articles yawners... I wanna know if it works in practice in the aquarium environ from someone who may have played with it. Sorry for the short novel... I think this will help me get past the first hurdle of getting something into my tank... a bit boring looking at an empty tank with a blue back ground and a chunk of drift wood. If it helps I am planning (but could change) on stocking with school of Corys, a m/f pair of dwarf gouramis, a couple Lyretail Swords, maybe a tetra school, some cherry shrimp and malaysian trumpet snails and maybe something else that will eat algae. If I can find all of this of course. Thanks for any input!