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Let me know what you find out; Big Als is the only place I know of.

I think you guys nailed it (knock on wood) I removed the marble since Ishkabod mentioned the thing about marble...I googled it and found some say it is fine and some say it is not. I also read a quick test to see if your rock is fine is to put a couple of drops of vinegar on the rock and if it bubbles it is not good for the tank. Well some of my marble bubbled and some didn't so i removed it all and did a water change and it has been 6 days I think since we have had any dead fish or issues...so hopefully that was it... Ishkabod you mentioned something about garlic with there food what do you mean? I still have one catanoide with pop eye in a QT tank I am treating with salt and heat he looks better but still has pop eye. Thanks everyone for their help! Rob.

I dont know what a stress death is like and the crabs can very well be the cause although they are too small to kill the fish themselves but stress could make sense. The weird part is during the day the fish are all happy and the leave the crabs alone and vice versa...now that I say that out loud, it makes sense..most problems appear the next morning....the crabs are active most of the day as for late and night I am not sure but crabs are known to hunt at night. I was warned about crabs catching fish as they slept but these guys are too small to catch the fish I have but I guess not too small to stress them out? I didnt know what a stress death would be like..and the gasping at the bottom of the tank is what confused me.

I was using a dechlorinator, but one that just removes chlorine and stuff, the fishless cycle page here says not to use things like Amque and prime but to use a simple chlorine/chloriamine remover.

Thanks ishkabod I have aquarium salt...any idea of which fish i have are not salt tolerant? I have marble and rundle for rocks..I am not sure if they are the problem or not.. Oh and yes the PH is 7.8.

Thanks all for your thoughts, I thought it was the water too hence why I tested it daily, it isnt the water I do not use the strips I use the test tube kits and have tried 2 other kits besides my original kit, one from a friend and the other bought new. Big Al's has tested the water for me and get the exact same readings I do..no ammonia or nitrite. I followed the fishless tank cycle instructions on this site and many others and it states you can put a full fish load on the tank as soon as it is cycled. I cycled the tank for 5 ppm of ammonia daily and the fish load I put on it wont even come close to that levels of ammonia output and I am far from a full load on that tank am i not? I am using stability and just started prime yesterday as it is not recommended on a new fishless tank cycle...the reason why I tried prime is I was wondering if it was a heavy metal poisoning?... I dont think it is flow issues? the canister flows really strong the tank has a new Eheim 2028 Professional II. I have been treating with Melafix but the pop eyes hasnt gone away (been medicating 4 days now). I couldnt find any other pop eye stuff that said it was ok for invertabrates. I have looked at every single fish closely when I removed it from the tank to look for signs of anything and haven't found anything..no rot, flukes, nothing until now with the one fish with pop eye. I thought the same as you, new tank syndrome but no test shows that at all! Oh..and the ram thing..lol I said the same thing when I bought them at big al's and the dude was "NO..these are german blue rams and that one is a german ram..big difference.."...lol I was like OK....lol

OK quick background I will try to keep it as short as possible... Did the fishless cycle on my 80 gal freshwater tank, it took approx 2.5 weeks. The tank has silica sand base a 3d background and a big stack of rocks in the middle, all of which has been in the tank from the beginning. and 2 air stones producing lots of bubbles Put in 20 fish right away and then another 28 a few days later all small fish max 1.5" I have tested my water every day since I put fish in the tank and I have ZERO ammonia, nitrites and nitrates is 10 ppm...the water is hard Edmonton water and ph is neutral to alkaline. The water shows the same as my other tanks except my other tanks have a bit more nitrate but other then that the water has been testing perfect. I have done 50% water changes ever week to try to help this matter. Here was my original fish list: 1 agassizzii 3 Rams (2 blue and 1 german) 4 cacatuoides (2 orange and 2 normal) 6 gold tetra's 6 tiger barbs 6 Black Phantom Tetra's 6 rummy nose Tetra's 6 Serpae Tetra's 3 Indian Flasher 2 Gold Algae Eater's 5 vampire crabs I have lost from July 15th to date: 3 Rams 2 Orange cacatuoides 1 black phantom tetra 1 tiger barb 1 rummy nose 1 Indian Flasher 1 gold tetra I thought it was slowing down but Today I lost the last Ram and a rummy nose.. The agassizzii has had pop eye now for 5 days and is not look very good at all. All fish have died the same way: I notice them not being as active as normal They start breathing harder they don't swim much and stay in one side of the tank on the bottom breathing hard and not eating They start to do the death roll and swimming sideways then I will find them dead on the bottom All fish look totally fine until one day they start the dying process. Most of the time this process is I notice this in the evening and the next morning they are gone. What is going on in this tank!?!? Anything I can test for that I am not testing? Help I dont want to lose anymore fish!!

Do I have an overly aggressive agassizii? I just introduced a new agassizzii yesterday morning and every since then he swims around and chases every ram, Unidentified Apisto, cacatuoides and out of their caves (Rams more then the others...the others dont care about their caves as much). The agassizzi is the biggest out of all cichlids in the tank. Just to give you a background on my tank it is a 80 gallon with a big stack of rocks creating like 20 or so caves..the rock pile is about 3.5 feet across and about 18~20 inches tall. Fish list includes: 1 agassizzii 2 Rams (blue and bolivian) 2 cacatuoides 2 unidentified apisto's 6 gold tetra's 6 tiger barbs 6 Black Phantom Tetra's 6 rummy nose Tetra's 6 Serpae Tetra's 3 Denison Barb's 2 Gold Algae Eater's 5 vampire crabs I am not sure but I think since the new agassizii has been put in the Bolivian Ram has lost some color, do you think he is stressed? The Rams are about 1" and the agassizii is about 1.5~2". The only thing i can think of is why he doesn't just pick his own cave is because the fish can swim behind the rocks and all the cave kinda interconnect. Could it just be because they are setting order in the tank and he is bigger and stuff should calm down? Oh on second note...how many rams can I have..Man I love those guys!! Thanks! Rob.

Yeah pretty much every crab I look up they say give access to a place out of the water. There are fully aquatic ones but they are rare and hard to get in north america... It depends on the crab I guess...even in the same species some like it in the water and some like it on land..almost all of mine seem to like the water.. I used a 3d back ground for my tank that is made out of foam board and the crabs can crawl up it super easy so that is a bonus and a problem all in one. The bonus is I dont have to drain my tank low to have a way for the crabs to get above the water line but the problem is i have to make sure the lid is super tight or else they will all crawl out.. Long term we shall see, the guy I got them from has had this species for 3 years in a similar setup.

OK! I am all good, I have no ammonia, no Nitrite after 12 hours..and the nitrate is low so my tank is all done!! YAY! So it is an 80 gallon and I haven't had a chance to pick out all my new fish. So I have 14 fish in there they are all young about 1/2" in size. My question is should I be putting in some ammonia in so I don't lose my bacteria before I get a chance to buy all my fish?

Nice good to hear everyone, I got them yesterday afternoon and put them in my 80 gal with some tiger barbs and tetras. The crabs are young and small but so are the fish and the all pretty much leave each other alone. It is funny the crabs run away as soon as any fish comes up to them. LOL One day they will realize they are the predators.. There are a bunch of big rocks that create a bunch of caves so plenty places to hide, so I hope all will stay well.

Yeah from my reading they say stay away from slower bottom dwellers..lol not sure how to pick that..lol Maybe some dwarf cichlids will be ok? The crabs I am talking about only ever get to the max of 2.5 inches and some of my other crab species only get 1" body size

Does anyone know of any fish that would go with crabs, I know most community fish would but any cichlids? Thanks

What is the price on that? I was able to get a 48" 2x250 Metal H and 4x54w T5 and 6 LED moon lights for 425 US including shipping from ZS Aurora (http://www.zsaurora.com/Product_pages/mhadv.html), and I am really pleased with it great quality and it comes with lights! Just a thought... Your exchange, duty and shipping is going to drive that price through the roof. You would be better off cruising this forum and canreef looking for a used fixture. I run a 24" 4 bulb T5HO New Wave fixture (Same company that make Teklights) and love it. Individual reflectors, 4 bulbs, runs cool, a t5HO for $130 (thanks to Gold's). I would look at a New Wave 48" fixture and they come in either 4 bulb or 8 bulb for half the price of a Tek if I were setting up a 48" tank.. All in was 525 CDN, you would be hard pressed to find a light with metal h/T5 and LED in one unit for that price even used...But to each their own.

Oh, I didn't realize 60 was a deal! I am used to the 3 day ground cheap!... Henry at Natures Corner is looking into it and he knows where to get them it is just a matter of getting them here he thinks in a couple months but he might have a bunch! So if anyone wants them maybe let him know your interest. Thanks for everyone's help! Rob.