TaraBrad

Hey all, So a few weeks ago, I'd put a down payment on a pair of Green Dragon Flowerhorns at Gold's Aquarium in Calgary, with the intent to pick them up the following week and pay the remainder of the balance. So anyway, my girlfriend needed urgent dental work that seriously belted me in the pocketbook(stupid insurance company won't cover it, apparently), and unable to contact Dennis, he sold the fish to another party. Now, this is not an angry rant. For the record, I hold no problem with Gold's for taking this course of action and will actually stop into Gold's to apologize to Dennis for jerking him around like that. To my shame, he and I have not spoken since the down-payment. That's beside the point. Anyway, my girlfriend was seriously second-guessing my decision on the flowerhorns anyway. She's discovered Tropheus. Now, I'm not much for African cichlids, and haven't done much with them in years, but I must admit, these things got my attention. So, like a good fish geek, I started doing my homework. And, I have to say, I'm a little shocked on some of my discoveries. Firstly, the setup I maintain is a standard 75-gallon, lit by 2 6700K T5HO bulbs and filtered by a Fluval FX5, which I bought specifically for my now-dead flowerhorn project. It is sown with experienced bio-media, and I'm quite happy with it. Thanks to these lights, I can grow algae like no other, as well. In my initial stages of research, I figured that I had enough filtration, and could grow enough algae to supplement a group of perhaps 6-8 fish, which seemed like roughly enough, given their size, for a 75-gallon. So anyway, I did some reading on a few different sites(I'll provide links if you're curious), that are suggesting colonies of between 25-35 fish for a tank this size! When I read the first one, I initially dismissed it as a self-made expert writing an article, but I found several that actually support this view. That set off alarm bells in my head! As a cichlid guy, I learned to have 2 inches of adult fish per 5 gallons, and a filter rated for 2x your tank volume. I also learned that with Africans(specifically Malawis), to overstock a little bit to spread aggression around, which all makes sense in my mind. However, 25 5-inch fish in 75 gallons seems absurd to me. Does anyone in here actually maintain stocking volumes like this? I understand that it's more fish for the aggression to go around, but this seems a little overboard. It seems to me that the actual physical fish mass in the tank begins to crowd in on each other here, even if you do over-filter to the point that you can maintain proper water quality. I also did some reading on bloat, and how susceptible these things are to it. I also saw a lot of guys listing a 100% vegetable diet as a necessity, whereas some others were suggesting the addition of brine shrimp. And, by and large, all of them were talking about flake food. Now, for a largish aquarium cichlid, seems to me that flakes just don't cut it. I've been pretty big on NLS, and several live/frozen/fresh foods in the past, but no one really mentioned too much about that, aside from frozen brine shrimp. The other major question that I found was the issue of domestic vs. F1 vs. wild-caught. For most of my previous fish, I've never been big on wild-caughts. Blame it on my inner environmentalist(tree-hugger!). However, I've heard that F1 is a seriously abused term regarding Tropheus, and that all of the domestic stuff is inbred to the point that they're in terrible shape. Now, having never encountered too many of these in my regular LFS circuit, I'm not sure what to make of it. The most common place I see them is on Spencer Jack's order lists, and everything currently is listed as F1. I'm familiar with Spencer's outfit and don't believe him to be BSing, but, of course, I could forsee him passing along misinformation unknowingly. So, I appeal to the local Tropheus guys for their wisdom and experiences. Let's have it, guys. Cheers, Brad

Neil, A little reasoning behind feeding the way I do: 1) I have absolutely no doubt that NLS is, hands down, light years ahead of any other fish food on the market. However, it is one food, manufactured one way, containing the exact same thing in every pellet. Another food(Hikari Bio-Gold, for example) is another, different food(admittedly inferior), made with different ingredients, differently sized, and again, with the exact same thing in every pellet, but different than the NLS. As I've always learned in years of fish-keeping(and reptiles, another pastime of mine), variety is the most important thing that you can offer, in the hopes of maintaining a proper diet. 2) If I had access to enough variety in different live foods and natural options, I wouldn't feed a pellet at all. However, even with 10 different insect species, breeding my own feeder guppies(I don't anymore), and offering a variety of fruits/vegetables/etc., I don't think I come even close to what most fish would consume naturally. I'm also sure that fish food manufacturers have done far more research into cichlid diets than I ever have. 3) So it's understood, I will say that NLS will be the staple, daily-fed food for any of my fish, and has been for 5 years or so. However, on the off chance that Hikari, or Tetra, or HBH, or anyone else is adding anything into their formulas that NLS is not, that is potentially benefitting that fish and not obviously causing harm, I supplement that staple diet with these other prepared foods, just as I do with live/fresh/frozen/FD foods. If, for some reason, these foods are rejected by the fish and untouched, I don't feed them. In regards to tank size, as both male and female are around the 5 inch mark, they'll be housed in a divided, standard 75-gallon tank, fitered by a Rena XP3. However, as they will outgrow this tank, I've already got some estimates for a custom 150 out there, which I plan on feeding with an FX5 and a 40-gallon sump. I wanted to go the Eheim Pro 3 route, but I don't really feel like taking out a second mortgage. Mainly, I want a custom 150 for the Starphire glass, as I've had tanks made from this, and after going back to regular glass, I can safely say that it's the difference between regular and HD television. Anyway, I'd appreciate any other remarks/constructive criticisms you have about anything I've written. I've found both you and Blake to be knowledgeable and helpful, both in this particular thread and prowling on a few others. And post some pictures of your Fader! Brad

Thanks, guys, Yeah, I don't think my basement is quite that size... no, unfortunately, I don't have plans for a fish room at all right now. You guys have certainly given me something to think about. I don't intend to try and pawn dozens upon dozens of unsexed, undeveloped fry on Kijiji or Alberta Aquatica, nor do I have the time, money, space, or enough vested interest to invest in large-scale breeding with Flowerhorns. This is just an experiment, to see how things go. I figure we'll give it a go, and I'll treat the fry the way I always have. In the event that I get a couple larger, surviving fry that look nice, I'll throw them in a separate tank and see if I can sell them. But if the whole thing turns into a flop, more of a headache than it's worth, I'm sure I can find a good home for this pair, and I'll move on to some of my old standby favorites. Regarding feeding, I figured that NLS was about the best I could get. However, for the sake of variety, I like to feed one pellet as a staple, and one or two others, in addition to some live/frozen foods, and some fruit/vegetable/seed/nut, as supplementation. Are there other pellets that you guys would suggest, or suggest to stay away from? From my understanding(and I may be wrong) the nuchal hump growth was dictated primarily by genetics, and that there was no concrete evidence showing a relationship between growth and certain varieties of food. Good to know that they're quality fish, though. It's certainly more than I've invested in most of my previous fishes, although I have no qualms with paying good money for good fish. My only concern at this time is the condition of the female, who looks like she was savaged pretty bad after breeding. I've got a simple egg-crate divider that I was planning on using, but am I better off quarantining her entirely? In your experiences, will a male attempt to wreck a barrier in order to get at her? In response to the comment about keeping the male singly as a show fish, that was my initial plan, but the tank is in our living room, and the girlfriend originally hated the idea of having only 2 fish in it. To think, I almost ended up with a huge school of cardinal tetras. Kinda makes you feel like a wimp after keeping large cichlids. Anyway, I'm glad to have a couple Flowerhorn guys that jumped right on my post. I figured that this would be the place to come. Thanks for any and all advice offered. I'll be picking the pair up on Saturday, so I'll see if I can post some pictures, either here or in a new thread. Regards, Brad PS: I checked out an older post, BlueCan, and that Thai Silk pictured in your thread is really cool. Must have taken out a second mortgage or something.

Hey everyone, I'm about to acquire a pair of flowerhorns, marketed as "Green Dragons". As I'm fairly new to flowerhorns(I've kept a number of other large SA/CA cichlids, but never these), I am unsure if this is actually a bloodline or if it's just a marketing name. Looks like a Thai Silk with some patterning to me. I'll post some pictures as soon as I can. Anyway, I've got a couple questions: 1) These two are in the 4-5" range, a proven breeding pair. Anyway, I've always tried to offer as much of a mixed diet as I can, so I'd like some recommendations as to some of the best pelleted foods available. Years ago, when I kept Aztecs(Parachromis managuensis), I offered crickets and mealworm beetles, as well as some vegetable/fruit matter, in accordance to what I've read regarding their natural histories and diets. Now, with flowerhorns, having never been a "wild" cichlid per se, I'm not sure what kind of variation is required/expected. Am I overthinking it? Seems to me that having stemmed from Red Devils, Red Terrors, etc., that they would recognize these items as food and take them, but I'm not sure if the norm is just to feed them on a pelleted diet. Any flowerhorn keepers, please share your offered foods and how your fish reacted to them. 2) Breeding. It seems to me that the breeding for these is pretty straightforward, as the male was raising fry when I first spotted him. Aside from separating the female so she doesn't get destroyed, are there any special considerations I should be aware of? Looks like a regular open-spawner to me. Correct me if I'm wrong. 3) Raising fry. To be honest, I've kept Jaguars, Red Devils, Oscars, and Green Terrors(among others, but these seem the most pertinent), and they've all spawned at some point or another, but I've never really given the babies much thought. Few survive through to any significant size as I do very little/nothing to keep them, and those that do go off to my LFS as donations. Anyway, I thought it might be kind of fun to raise some of the fry, should I be given the opportunity. And my girlfriend and daughter would, I'm sure, greatly enjoy seeing babies grow. Could some one give me the Idiot's Guide to Raising Fry? I've got a small 20-gallon running that's currently empty, but established, and I'm willing to turn it into a fry tank(and/or quarantine), but are there any special considerations I should keep in mind? 4) What to do with fry? I'm not trying to make a fortune on flowerhorns. If they successfully breed, and I successfully raise fry, I'm concerned about dropping off a bag-load of juvenile fish to a LFS and have some greedy bastard of a guy try and charge a small fortune for them. It doesn't bother me that they're trying to make money, my concern is them stuffing a ton of flowerhorns into an enclosed space, where they rip one another to ribbons. So far as I know, there aren't a ton of people(relatively speaking) that are willing to run a large tank for one fish, and many people aren't really thrilled about paying a small fortune for flowerhorns, especially when so many other large SA/CA cichlids are almost as nice to look at, for a ridiculous amount less money. The best example I can think of are the Red Devils at Petland on 130th Avenue. There are 25-30 of them, all 3-4 inches, crammed into 20 gallons of water, and they have been there forever, and are beginning to look a little rough as a result. At the same point, I'm hesitant to list them on Kijiji or here to sell them super-cheap for a couple of reasons. For one, I don't want to be under-cutting the flowerhorn breeders out there who are taking serious time and effort to breed their fish, and are keeping pure strains of certain bloodlines, and have every right to charge a pretty penny for them. For two, I personally like paying a little more for my fish, as I feel that with many fishkeepers, when the initial draw to keeping wanes and their fish suffer as a result, the common thought is, "Oh well, luckily I only had $15 worth of fish in there." However, I would like to breed them, as I find watching the fry-rearing of the parent(s) quite interesting, and in my opinion, having your fish breed is a good indicator of proper husbandry(unhappy fish don't breed, unless they're convicts). Has anyone found the balance of breeding flowerhorns as a casual hobbyist without trying to make a fortunes, and still finding acceptable homes for their spawns? Any thoughts are appreciated. Brad

Hey all, Never posted much here before, and not for a really long time anyway. Anyway, my girlfriend and I are in some serious need of assistance. Firstly, I'm a freshwater guy, and have been for a lot of years. Then, about 2 years back, when my daughter was born, I gave up fish to focus on parenting. Now that we've got through the rough early stages(sleeplessness, etc.), we've purchased(second-hand, from a friend) a 75 gallon setup with the intent to do an FO saltwater setup. Anyway, the trouble begins here. When the tank arrived, with stand and basic lighting, we received a white-spotted bamboo shark and a Pacific blue tang with it, and about 25 gallons of cultured water, and several pieces of rock. Originally base rock, this stuff has been hanging out in an established reef for some time, and I've got all sorts of good, bad, and ugly stuff living on it. Chief among these are pest anemones, which I've determined to be Aptasia. Anyway, the setup, right from day one, was a pretty half-assed affair(gotta be honest here). It was delivered at 10:00pm, 2 days before Christmas, and we just set it up, over 3 hours. So I've been checking it out ever since. It's got a pair of ancient submersible heaters, which, while ugly and lacking the clips to hold them to the side of the tank, are doing the job. There's a strong powerhead creating a strong current in the tank. Again, while unattractive, it's doing the job. So my major problem right now is filtration. The tank came with a Fluval 404 canister filter filled with pieces of live rock. Shortly after set-up, the clip on the side of the filter snapped off, dumping about 30 gallons of water onto my living room floor. Fun, fun. Anyway, in the financial crunch that is Christmas, this is just being looked into now. So, I've been looking into getting this thing fixed up, but I understand that filtration for saltwater is a very different monster than freshwater, and that's my biggest problem at this time. From my reading, it seems to me that most people seem to run sumps on saltwater setups. For us, with the way the stand is set up, combined with the fact that the whole system is already wet, makes this a non-option for me, and I'm stuck for another idea. Secondly, I live within a stone's throw from Gold's in Calgary, which can be a real problem for fish that just seem to "find their way home" to my tank. When we took our Pacific blue tang to Dennis, as it was definitely showing signs of needing a new home, we ended up coming back with a small(3-inch) powder brown tang and a coral beauty angelfish. Anyway, I'm not worried about future care of the fish in the tank, since I've been doing my homework on the species, but I know that the hardware here is going to cause grief. After filtration, I'm concerned about two other things. The first would be the Aptasia infestation, which has taken over nearly the whole tank, and how the easiest way to go about cleaning that up is, either through the addition of livestock or some other type of removal. I've heard that peppermint shrimp will eat them, and I'm wondering about throwing a couple in there(temporarily, as it's still supposed to be FO). I've also read that copperband butterflies will eat them, but that they're terrible feeders otherwise. So any wisdom there would be appreciated. Finally, we come to this shark. It came with the tank, a freebie. It's a really cool fish, healthy, female(so I'm told), hand-feeding, frozen diet, and has been housed previously with small fish, but hasn't caused any casualties. She's pushing 18" long, and i hear 40" is expected. So obviously a standard 75 is a bad home for her, even now. So I'll be looking for a new home for her. Anyway, I've also got a list of hardware that I'm searching, if anyone's trying to unload some stuff. 1) New stand, 48x18 footprint, that could house a sump that may appear in the future. 2) Glass tops. I'm using egg crating now. 3) New light fixture. I'm not growing corals, so I don't need anything fancy. The one that came with the tank is falling apart(home job). 4) Filter. What to buy, what brand, what my best bet is for this kind of operation. 5) Protein skimmer. Do I need one, and can anyone recommend a specific unit, preferably HOB as I have no sump to stick it in. Anyway, I know that a lot of this is our fault, just not doing things properly right from day one, and I'm trying to remedy it. So come on in, pull no punches, and share your knowledge. If you're trying to unload some gear, I might be buying, and if you want a shark(and can house it), I might be selling. Thanks a lot to any who can help me fix this disaster of a situation. Brad