Aulonocara Baecschi Line breeding attempt

[sun]

Aulonocara Baenchi is my first and long time favorite peacock, I can only dream about having a species tank full of these yellow-blue beauties. Currently I have a trio WC Aulonocara Baenschi adults and 3 batche of about 50 F1 fries from both females. My question is, if I am to line breed them to enhance some of the favorable genetic charactors such as the bright yellow and superior finage etc, what sellective procedure should I follow? i mean, would you choose the "best looking" F1 males? or females? or both? Please someone chin in some light. :bow: thanks in advance.

[RD.]

Always use the best males (whatever your definition of 'best' is) and breed them to the healthiest females.

Usually out of a large batch of fry you'll find a few males that stand out from the rest, use those as the foundation

of your breeding stock. In order to properly line breed, you'll need to breed the 'best' looking females back to the best looking males, until you get the look that you're after.

IOW - line breeding is a form of selectively breeding related individuals, which equates to inbreeding.

While many people frown on inbreeding, as long as it isn't overly done, and the stock that you begin with

isn't plagued with unwanted traits or genes from the get go, it shouldn't be a problem. Outcrossing unrelated fish

also has the potential to introduce unwanted genes, and cause depression within your line, sometimes more so than

inbreeding.

HTH

[sun]

thanks RD you just hit the nail right on the head. :thumbs: really appreciate the input. Now i have some pictures for you. do you think they are a decent stock to start with? or do u think i should look around for something else?. - actualy i found that picking the right females seems to be more tricky. Although they look close enough, one of the female does have more yellow on the body and even a bit of blue hue under the lower jaw. So, dose that make it a "better" looking female, hence possible better looking offsprings? or simply a good female peacock should look like a female, i.e. absolutely no color.

anyway here are the pictures i took from last year when I first got them, and some from last month.

Pictures taken about one year ago - Aug 25, 2006

the male:

male finage:

One female:

Recent Pictures - May 18, 2007

the male:

male finage:

Both Female (one's holding)

thanks for looking and comments welcome!

[RD.]

Definitely use the female that is showing more color. As far as your male, by the looks of things you need to ease up on the amount you are feeding.

To be honest it's difficult to tell by your pics. Here's what my WC male looks like.

[sun]

wow sweet pictures! thanks for taking the time put things together, the pix says it all.

I agree, my pix are 500 miles under par, and maybe i should stop blaming only on my poor camera as well... but really my baenschi is very similar to the one in your two pictures (showing both side of the fish). Due to the "very limited" photo shooting skills, I guess I will have to use a few words then.

so when I was picking the Baenschi male (among 6-7 other males) I was trying to look for the followings: Big eyes, curved forehead, straight bold and even barrings on the body, two horizontal barrings close to the tail, nice bright yellow body and finage, Metallic blue under the chin, light powder blue between the barrings, and a nice and deep profile, Active but not over agressive. - tell me if i miss something. The male I currently have qulifies for most of the above but not 100%, - i know nothing is but how about 99% . anyhow, that was where the idea of line breeding came in.

So anybody can tell how long its going to take before I can see some significent improvement? I mean, to a degree that you can tell the difference without them being side by side. and timewise, are we talking about years? or decades?

[RD.]

If your WC group are already throwing high quality F1 fry, then I'm not exactly sure why you feel the need to attempt to improve matters? To be honest most people would probably prefer F1 fry, than line bred F (whatever) fry, even IF the line bred specimens might look a wee bit better. If your WC group was throwing inferior looking fish, then that would be a different story.

[RD.]

dup post from a hiccup ....

Edited June 22, 2007 by RD.

[sun]

I see your points. but right now its hard to say good or bad about those F1 fries just yet, coz they r too young. Other than that the barrings are good so far for the first batch of ten from the colored female. I will see how they develop along the way. I will for sure take some pictures of those little ones. I can see a few started to show a bit of yellow and one even with a white trim on the dosal fin.

However, like i said, I really wish that I can have a group of "perfect looking" Baenschis, which i guess is hard to come by even in their nature habitat. In fact I dont not really worry too much about them being F1 or FN coz i am planing on keeping keep the majority of them, and as long as they are good looking healthy pure fish, i am a happy camper. It does sound like there is some competition going on between the idea of "being natrual" and "being good looking", but so far its more of a personal preference than anything, and I am leaning to the look myself, at least for now.

[RD.]

Even in nature there are those specimens that will be hardier, larger, have longer finnage, stronger colors, etc.

If you feel that you can improve your line by manipulating who breeds with what, by all means have at it.

Most large scale commercial breeders will always hold back a few choice males (perhaps 3 or 4) out of several hundred juvies and use them as the foundation of their breeding stock.

[k9outfit]

if I am to line breed them to enhance some of the favorable genetic charactors such as the bright yellow and superior finage etc, what sellective procedure should I follow?

Interesting thread - at least I think so....

If I were to line breed a superior quality fish, first and foremost, I'd start by making a very detailed, concise list of the qualities I want in my fish - along with traits I definitely DIDN'T want. I firmly believe my version of my "perfect" fish needs to be 100% clear in my mind to give me some direction, long before I even start selecting my breeding stock. Then, I'd select my male, make a list of his good points, and another list of "things to improve upon", namely his faults. I'd have 2 lists for each male. Then, I'd do the same for the females, qualities, and areas to improve.

From there, I'd breed the select pair, raise the young to at least reasonable colouring, and then assess each individual: good points, bad points, what characteristics were improved, which were not, and the whole spawn in general, as to whether or not it was a good match.

Then when these have been assessed and are breedable, then decide whether to cross back to the male/female, breed specific siblings together, or...? Each breeding would have to be thought out, planned, assessed, along with reasons for why it would be a good match, or why not; all based on your vision of the "perfect" specimen.

Basically, I'd say you're looking at - conservatively - a few years. But, it would be a fun challenge.

[sun]

"first and foremost, I'd start by making a very detailed, concise list of the qualities I want in my fish...Then, make a list of his good points, and another list of "things to improve upon", namely his faults. I'd have 2 lists for each male." Great point! this is what I am going to do next.

"you're looking at - conservatively - a few years" - humm, this is something to think about.