Nose heavy molly...

[Calab]

Looks like my male silver molly has a case of swim bladder. It could be something else, but I don't know what. Any ideas?

If he tries, he can usually get himself swimming normally, but as soon as he relaxes, his tail goes right and and he ends up facing the bottom of the tank. I know he's not happy in this condition, but looks normal otherwise.

I've got him in a small "hospital" tank and haven't fed him in about 36 hours. Also added some Melafix and Pimafix as well to his water as well.

Is there anything else it could be? Is there something specific that I should be doing?

He was in my 33 gallon tank with about a dozen other fish, including another molly, and those fish are fine. For food they were getting flakes, dried bloodworms, algae pellets and some zuccini once daily in the morning.

Last water readings in the 33 was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrIte and 10 nitrAte.

[Calab]

So far there hasn't been any change.

I put some mashed peas and a small bit of zucchini in the tank yesterday morning, but he doesn't seem to be eating.

I even took him out of the tank and tried to massage his belly a bit today... Very gently of course. He didn't do much to try and get away.

At this point I don't know what to do. He seems to be getting pretty worn out and I can't imaging him fighting this much longer.

[gobies et al]

I hope this gives some ideas for cause and tx of your unhappy ailing fish. I copied this from:

http://weloveteaching.com/puregold/disease...tom/symptom.htm

FLOATING PROBLEMS, SWIM BLADDER DISEASE

NEW THINKING ON FLOATING

Floating problems are complex. If it occurs only after feeding, see below.

Females full of eggs can have balance problems.

Dropping a fish can result in swim bladder damage.

Toxins can cause swim bladder problems.

Cranial kidney and floating

It can also be due to problems with regulation of the air bladder. This organ can be damaged by medications and treatments before you even bought your fish. One is "tranquilizers" put into the water when fish are shipped. The damage does not show up right away.

The primary cause of floating is feeding food that floats and/or too much food at one time. Soak the food and squeeze the air out so the food sinks. Best is to get high quality sinking food. Or, feed foods that sink, like grapenuts, rice, veggies, oatmeal. If feeding is only done once a day, feed at night, and all they can eat for 5 minutes. If twice a day, all they can eat in 3 minutes.

The other parameter here is temperature. Increasing the temp of the water seems to ease the floating problem. The activity of their digestive tract increases with increased temperature. However, increased oxygenation of the water must be done at the same time.

For a fish that is already floating, check the belly (see the 3 point physical). IF the fish is fine according to the 3 point check, or if the fish is constipated: The minimalist approach is to not feed the fish for 3 days and if it stops floating, then resume feeding but soaked/sinking food with more veggies like peas.

The more aggressive approach is to feed a pea with a crystal of epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) in it to the fish. Epsom salts is a purgative.

Even more aggressive is to do a salt dip on the fish. This purges the fish out. Ammonia levels must be watched carefully.

If this doesn't work, there is a procedure called the "Chinese Water" method. The fish is put into a tub and only enough water is added to just cover the back fin. The fish is not fed for 4 days. If the fish is upright, each day a little more water is added (the fish must be moved to fresh, aged water each day to move it away from ammonia accumulation). After 4 days, if the fish is upright in deeper water, then a couple peas can be fed. After that, gradually add a little more food.

Another cause of damage is toxins in the water. One of the most common is hydrogen sulfide produced by anaerobic bacteria that live in areas with low oxygen, like the gravel in tanks. GF are bottom feeders and will turn gravel over looking for food. I have seen a GF turn over a piece of gravel

and go into distress. Thought the GF had got the gravel caught in the mouth but gravel could not be seen. The fish displayed balance problems for quite a while. Chronic low levels of toxins with hydrogen sulfide can lead to persistent and finally permanent floating problems. This typically

occurs when the gravel is cleaned by siphoning and the crud gets mixed in the water. The gas is released during siphoning. H2S toxicity should be suspected when a fish shows balance problems during or right after cleaning gravel. Increasing oxygenation of the tank helps the low oxygen problem

somewhat.

Getting rid of gravel in tanks prevents the problem entirely. Using potassium permanganate at 1/2 strength in the tank during cleaning can also prevent toxing with H2S. PP reacts instantly with H2S and organic compounds and turns from pink to yellow.

OK.. here is the deal. Jo Ann and I been in discussion about floating and "swim bladder" disease. I have never been able to get past the fact that the explanation doesnt fit the observations.

>The fish floats upside down.

>The swim bladder is at the "top" of the fish under the back.

>Necropsies of "floaters" show the swim bladder is full.

I can see where a fish that cannot submerge, or cant get off the bottom may have a dysfunctional swim bladder, but it doesnt explain "upside down" I was reading in Stoskopf (p. 127) "Gas-forming enteritis can mimic disease of the swim bladder. In addition to the development of abnormal swimming postures, bulges from gas-filled bowel can cause the clinician to misidentify the bowel as the swim bladder. "

Now THIS would explain a fish being upside down. The belly has a greater quantity of gas than the swim bladder and the fish flips over. IN addition, I have seen this "bulging" of sides of the fish and especially at the back of the fish leading to that "dumpy" look. The fish is often curved, as if muscles on one side are not operating (on the side that is bulging out) and the muscles of the side curved in seems to be permanently contracted. Most likely is that the gas so fills up one side that it pushes that side up and it is impossible for the fish to straighten out. Think of those of us who get "gas" and how contorted we can be trying to find a position to avoid the pain. In support of the pain theory, in those fish I have made little weighted jackets for, the fish seemed to be in discomfort at the bottom of the tank. Altho subtle in a tank, the pressure might also be painful. In fish with egg binding, the eggs are often infected, and this could lead to gas formation as well, also with the fish flipping over.

CURRENT TREATMENT

In cases of enteritis that I have had with my dogs, the treatment was no food or water for a couple days to give the inflammation of the intestines a chance to calm down combined with antibiotics. The recommended treatment for possibly food related floating is no food, epsom salts with a pea, heat. The recommendation for egg binding is epsom salts, heat and antibiotic food.

SUGGESTED NEW TREATMENT

First try to determine if the fish has any parasites and treat for that.

Then put the fish into a 10 or 20 gallon tank and just put in enough water to cover the fish. Use filtration!!! Ammonia MUST be carefully monitored and water changed if the filtration is not removing it. Whisper filters may need to have the "joints" sealed with silicone to keep the siphon working in lowered water .. even the basket on the bottom may need to be removed and a piece of aquarium foam tied on.

Add 1 teaspoon of epsom salts to the water. Do not add more, even if some water needs to be changed. Do not add any regular salt.

Lay and attach a heater along the corner where the sides and floor of the tank meets so that the fish CANNOT end up laying on it and frying their side. Crank the heat up to 84oF. Put an airstone in front so it will move the water up and away from the heater.

Treat any surface sores with antibiotic creme, like Panalog (at the vets) or neosporin.

Do not feed the fish for up to 4 days. Look for expelling of airy, bubbly poops and get them out of the tank.

On the 4th day feed the fish 1/2 of normal rations of high protein (sinking, or soaked and squeezed) food for 4 days. After that, normal amounts of sinking food.

The fish needs to be "walked" while in the tank. This involves placing your hand underneath the fish to get it upright and slowly moving it thru the water to get the fins moving. Do this as many times as possible during the day for about 3 minutes each time until the fish is swimming on its own. This could take up to 3 months if the fish has been floating for a long time.

[Calab]

I never did follow up.

Unfortunately, the small fellow died on the 7th. Never did find out what happened.

Take care!