Agressive Discus AGAIN!

[t.j.t]

Ive been threw this twice now. First two discus i bought i had them in a 25g tank so i couldnt put many more in it. One became dominate the other was very skiddish and wouldnt eat well. Long story short i lost the agressive blood pigeon when i changed too the pelet food because he ate too many(and i fed him too many) and he ended up bloating up and was dead a couple hours later.

After that i bought 3 more discus and at this point i had them all in my new 90 galon tank. I was fighting algea for a while and lost one of the new ones, but again the blood pigeon that WAS skiddish and wouldnt eat took over the tank and forced the other 2 fish to the coners of the tank and would nip and "dash" at them whenever they swam out into the open. one of them hid so much i was days away from putting it down myself because i could start seeing its skeleton and its forhead was caving in.

I didnt think i had any other option but to pull the blood pigeon out of the tank because i was told they could become territorial(at this point i thought it was already). I sold it for nothing but it was for the better i thought. So i had a Golden Leopard witch was doing ok, and then the Red melon that was near death. I added Co2 injection and started to add garlic to the food i was putting into the tank. The algea cleared up amazingly well and the red melon began to eat... eat... and eat.

At this point i was like yay, problem solved, the melon and the leopard were getting along well.

So i went out and picked up 2 red eyed blue diamond. I dont have a QT tank setup so i drip acculmated them to the tank, after about a hour and a half i got them into the tank. Once i put them in the tank they began to swim around checking things out... and it was right out of Jaws... The Golden Leopard took sight, watched, slowly moved in, and darted.

So i was like, well lets give this a day or two. basicly since i put them in the tank ive seen them twice. both times they come out, both times the Golden leopard and the Red melon just dart at them and they look like they just want to swim around but the other 2 fish wont let them until they go hide behind the rock in the back of the tank again.

Its really dissapointing, ive heard if you rearrange your tank it can fix it, but it didnt do anything with my blood pigeon. Plus i can only do so much its a planted tank and the plants have taken really nicely and i cant uproot them all.

I run my tank at 85-86f, thats also what the lfg keep there discus at. My co2 lvls have been a bit high but all other water peramiters have been in check. I really dont want to see these fish starve and i really dont want to have to get rid of my golden leopard but i cant help but feeling like its the same as when i had the blood pigeon and the red melon just about starved to death.

And hints? ideas? how long do discus usualy take to get along if at all, i was always under the impression they are a soacial fish but the only time i seem to have a happy is tank is with 2 discus. yet i always read they like to be in big groups. Im sure someone will say add more and they will be less agressive towards the same fish, but im just worried ill have 4 fish hiding, and at 40-60 bucks a fish i can think of better things to do with my money if its just going to hide on me

clearly im doing something wrong, and sorry for the long post but any ideas would be great.

[firestorm]

No you are not doing anything wrong, and I feel your pain. I had many problems with discus when I first started keeping them, and still do every now and then. I have 5 altogether in my 90 and my red turquoise is the dominant of the tank, he does similar things.

My first word of advice is to stock it with at least 5-6 discus, this will help spread out the aggression. They recommend keeping no more than 1 discus for every 10 gallons of water, a 50 gallon should be the smallest tank size other than a QT. So you could get away with having 9 of them in a 90, and I would try to increase up to that. I always try to add at least 2 new discus at once, that way not just the one is being picked on. Discus are cichlids you have to remember, and no cichlid is always nice to their own kind. How big are your 2 original dicus? Maybe they have paired off or something and that's why he is being so aggressive. I would try setting up a separate holding tank, 10-20 gallons should be fine depending on the size of your leopard. Remove the dominant discus into another tank for a few weeks then try adding him back. Some people have said that this worked with aggressive fish and some it didn't, but I say give it a try. Remember though there will always be a dominant one in the tank, so once you remove him another one will step up to the plate and become dominant over the others.

As for the getting thin in the head, it really sounds like he developed Hexamita to me. Have you spotted any white feces in the tank? Best thing to do when you start to see a discus getting thin or white poop, is to start raising the temp gradually to 90 degrees, and treat the tank with metronidazole. Usually they still eat but start looking thin. It is better to start treatment before it gets to the stage of them not eating at all. Metro is not a very strong medication so it will not harm your biological culture nor your fish. It works best when temps are at 90 at least. Stress can sometimes be a factor to this, and I would also QT any new discus for 4-6 weeks before adding to the main tank to ensure they are healthy and eating pellet or flake food. Metro also works best when added to food, but if you have to adding it to the water will also work, just not as effectively. Treat the metro every 8 hours doing a 50% wc in between doses, dosing for at least a week. I know it doesn't say any of this on the container, I have gotten this advice from some great discus experts and it truly works great.

For feeding juvenile discus it is recommended to feed 4-5 times a day, not a huge amount either. For adults 2-3 times a day should be sufficient. I always feed mine pellets first thing in the morning, then either flake or another type of pellet when I get home from work (or afternoon), sometimes I fit another pellet or flake feeding in before their last feeding, but as their last food of the day I give them frozen. Either bloodworms, cichlid delight, ocean nutrition discus formula, mysis shrimp, and brine shrimp, are what I feed mine. Beefheart also works if you either make your own or can find it in the frozen form.

Hope this helps you out and good luck to you

[t.j.t]

No you are not doing anything wrong, and I feel your pain. I had many problems with discus when I first started keeping them, and still do every now and then. I have 5 altogether in my 90 and my red turquoise is the dominant of the tank, he does similar things.

My first word of advice is to stock it with at least 5-6 discus, this will help spread out the aggression. They recommend keeping no more than 1 discus for every 10 gallons of water, a 50 gallon should be the smallest tank size other than a QT. So you could get away with having 9 of them in a 90, and I would try to increase up to that. I always try to add at least 2 new discus at once, that way not just the one is being picked on. Discus are cichlids you have to remember, and no cichlid is always nice to their own kind. How big are your 2 original dicus? Maybe they have paired off or something and that's why he is being so aggressive. I would try setting up a separate holding tank, 10-20 gallons should be fine depending on the size of your leopard. Remove the dominant discus into another tank for a few weeks then try adding him back. Some people have said that this worked with aggressive fish and some it didn't, but I say give it a try. Remember though there will always be a dominant one in the tank, so once you remove him another one will step up to the plate and become dominant over the others.

As for the getting thin in the head, it really sounds like he developed Hexamita to me. Have you spotted any white feces in the tank? Best thing to do when you start to see a discus getting thin or white poop, is to start raising the temp gradually to 90 degrees, and treat the tank with metronidazole. Usually they still eat but start looking thin. It is better to start treatment before it gets to the stage of them not eating at all. Metro is not a very strong medication so it will not harm your biological culture nor your fish. It works best when temps are at 90 at least. Stress can sometimes be a factor to this, and I would also QT any new discus for 4-6 weeks before adding to the main tank to ensure they are healthy and eating pellet or flake food. Metro also works best when added to food, but if you have to adding it to the water will also work, just not as effectively. Treat the metro every 8 hours doing a 50% wc in between doses, dosing for at least a week. I know it doesn't say any of this on the container, I have gotten this advice from some great discus experts and it truly works great.

For feeding juvenile discus it is recommended to feed 4-5 times a day, not a huge amount either. For adults 2-3 times a day should be sufficient. I always feed mine pellets first thing in the morning, then either flake or another type of pellet when I get home from work (or afternoon), sometimes I fit another pellet or flake feeding in before their last feeding, but as their last food of the day I give them frozen. Either bloodworms, cichlid delight, ocean nutrition discus formula, mysis shrimp, and brine shrimp, are what I feed mine. Beefheart also works if you either make your own or can find it in the frozen form.

Hope this helps you out and good luck to you

Thanks for the tips, it seems i may have hit the panic button a bit early as they look to be doing a lot better. The red eye blues diamonds are swimming around a lot more. Although when i feed they still seem to get what the golden and melon dont eat. but they are eating. The red melon alsmot looks more territorial but at one point i though it was ready to die(couple months back)

I know it was getting thin in the head because it wasnt eating, i would drop food near it, away from it, flakes, solid, bloodworms, it wasnt intrested in anything for the first couple months i had it. Like i said this fish was on death row. I also treated with metro and it didnt change anything. It wasnt until i put garlic in some tube worm cubes i have... the first time i did that he really took intrests and over the next couople weeks he began eating more and more until now where i dont use garlic and he actualy goes for food when im feeding instead of hiding.

Id say my golden is about 3.5"(and a very nice thickness), the melon is about 3" because it didnt eat for so long its starting to grow/fill out. the 2 new blue diamonds i got are around 2.5-3" as well they both look very nice and im really happy everything seems to be taking well in my tank. Tonight ill try to get some pictures up.

Also when Discus pair up, is there some "noobie" way to realize this, because the 2 blue diamonds spend all there time together and the golden and the melon spend all there time together as well, but i havent gendered either of them so i dont know if they are just framiliar with one another. The mad darting and nipping has really eased up, at first the blues were getting darted at so much they were jumping out of the water or into the glass at times.

[firestorm]

I think they are still a little young to pair off, it could just be a familiarity thing for them. Usually when discus pair off they follow each other around, and they will chase the others around. I would wait a few months and see how they act around each other then since it has been such a short time you have had the new discus.

Garlic works great for picky eaters, but I find it strange he didn't take bloodworms off the bat, most of them do. Often times I try to ask the seller what they have been feeding the discus, just so I know what to be prepared for. I would definitely try feeding them at least 3-4 times a day with the size that they are. Discus have small stomachs, and in the wild they eat small frequent meals.

I would still suggest trying to get at least a couple more discus in the next little while. They prefer being in larger groups, and I find are more skittish and hide more when there is less of them. I always try to get at least 2 at a time to spread out the aggression from the older discus. Usually within a few days to a week I find they settle down on picking on the new ones. I am glad to hear they are doing better