Tanker Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Hey.. if this is not the correct place to post... oops. I have been watching my pH for the last week or so, since moving into the ten gallon and picking up a mini kit to start getting "serious" with aquatics. We all started somewhere, and well... this is mine. Anyways, I can test pH, NH3, NO2, GH and KH and results are below... Tap water is included as well, for reference. Tank contents and time line also included for trouble shooting. Suggestions from one and all are welcome, I have to correct this, and fast... but most importantly, keep everything alive while I do it and maintain a proper level once I reach it. Realize the crushed coral isn't 'helping' but this is getting nuts... Tap (Calgary): KH: 120 mg/L GH: 180 mg/L pH: 7.6 Tank: KH: 130 mg/L GH: 480 mg/L !!! NH3: =0 NO2: <0.1 pH: 8.2 !!! Tank: 10 gallon, about 10-12 pounds of gravel with 1/2 cup (at most) of crushed coral mixed, seven corkscrew valls, 3 cabombas, small bit of bog wood (just introduced three days ago). Six Harlequin Rasboras, 1 Betta, three Ottos, all in all '9 inches of fish'. Also four small plastic tank decorations, but the shouldn't matter...? The tank has only been set up a week but was done using established media, etc (most of the contents were previously in a 5.5 gallon). No testing was done previously, because I simply didn't have a kit. pH had never been an issue before, judging by the "quick dip" 5 in 1 strips I used to use (when you've only got a 3 gallon tank with a betta in it... water quality is not as crucial). Thoughts, comments, etc? Anything else you'd like to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyasa Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 I think it has to be the crushed coral that is causing your pH and GH to rise. It is probably not recommended if these are the fish you are intending to keep in this tank. The fact that you have N02 also suggests that your tank has not completed cycling perhaps. The NO3 level would likely confirm this. The test kit that I think you will find most useful in the long term is a NO3 kit. This will be very helpful in regulating your water change schedule. HTH, David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted April 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 One thing I had not even considered: When I got the tank it had about 7 pounds of mixed gravel with that 1/2 cup of coral in it from a friend in Edmonton... the gravel had a small amount of water in it, to keep the bacteria "fresh" so I would have a strong base for the new set up. We have been talking, and it's nearly impossible (IMHO) for the pH to have risen that fast, based on simply putting "dry" coral in a tank in that short of a time; however... what if that moisture in there had already started disolving the coral, and that's why it's climbing out of control, now? it would have been 'softened' from being wet previously, and never had a chance to stop dissolving... I will do a water change tonight (mmm... midnight water changes, my favorite) until I get a pH back to 7.8 (with tap water at 7.6 I can't get it much lower without seriously disrupting the system) and keep the water fresh in there until next week, when I'll have a chance to pick up fresh gravel, and replace all the stuff down there. Suggestions on the best way to do it? I am thinking two nights in a row, half and half, to so I don't rip all the bio crud out of the substrate... but is 24 hours going to be long enough to let the new rocks "settle" before I wipe out the other half? Is it better to leave it a week between changes? I can put a plastic divider between the two sections, about two inches high, to keep the fresh stuff 'coral free'... Once I get the gravel replaced, should I watch it a while, before trying something else? or start off with something to lower the pH more? I know drastic jumps in pH is bad for fish, but really... isn't it better to get it where it should be, and maybe kill off a few, than slowly kill the bunch, anyways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garhan Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I have a question about your gravel. Any chance that it is mixed with sand. If so what type of sand. Also the coral defintely does not help. If you replace the sand/gravel mix. Then get silica based sandblasting sand from a wholesaler. $7.00 to $14.00 per bag at 40 kg. Make sure it is not plat sand as that is very high in phosphates and will boost your PH to high with the other additives in the sand mix. Garhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyasa Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I think you should be able to change your entire substrate at the same time. Most of your biological filtration will be in your filtre media. What kind of filtration do you have and what is the filtre media? Just be sure to rinse all of your new substrate before introducing to the aquarium. David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted April 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 I have a Penguin Mini with the drop-in filter cartridge. That cartridge will be two weeks old when I get the new gravel in, so I guess it should be dandy. There is a decent layer of 'scunge' built up on it, (but not enought to block flow, obviously). By all accounts, the bigger the tank, the easier the keep... I certainly hope so! (*Runs out to buy a 90*) This 10 is a headache! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandj Posted April 23, 2005 Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 Hey...I have the same pH mystery...but it's not a mystery to me anymore. I don't know about your gH, but here's my story: Out of tap: pH 7.6 Let the same water sit for one or two days either in a glass on the table or in the tank, it does not matter. I test it again, and the pH is 8.5! Mine has a bigger jump than yours! I asked many people, and I don't know if you are on well water or not, but well water has little or miniscule O2 in it. As it sits exposed to the air, the O2 enters and CO2 leaves....and the pH rises. Check this out for yourself by taking a glass of you tap and let it sit on the counter for 2 days. Aerate it to speed it up if you want. Let me know what your results are. (Maybe I am finally right about something) And as far as I know, coral should work SLOWLY, not as fast as you are experiencing. Come back soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 *Runs to fill a spare 3 gallon and toss a small filter on it to move the water around* Will report back Sunday night with results! I love Chemistry class! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted April 23, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2005 I don't need to wait to report back... 12 hours with an unfiltered mini pump running on it to circulate/airate the water, and pH has jumped from 7.4 or so to about 8.4. HUH??? :boxed: This is kicking my @$$... So fish need air to live, and filtered water to survive, but that raises the pH to levels that kill the fish...? What am I missing? Where is the disconnect, here? This tank (the 3 gallon) is an acrylic moulded tank, the 10 is a standard glass 10. There is nothing in the 3 except water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wandj Posted April 24, 2005 Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 Hey...relax! I always just put straight tap into my tanks..."wrong" pH and little O2...and I never had a problem. And listen to this...I had a bio wipe-out once...half the fish in my tank was dead when I woke up one morning. I freaked of course. Had to go to work that day. The fish were gasping and looking terrible. So I did an 80% water change with straight tap and had to run off to work. What I did sounds bad right? Putting tap with pH 7.6 and little/no O2 into a tank of pH 8.5? When I got home from work, all the fish that were alive when I left were happily swimming around and just fine...in fact, my Rainbows were even showing breeding rituals. And not a single fish died after I did the emergency water change. I keep some pretty fussy, delicate fish and so long as you don't do over 30%, you will never have to worry. Sometimes I do 50% with straight tap with no problems. Well, even that time I did 80%, they were very grateful. Why don't you try some big water changes on some culls/junk fish to test your limits? Oh, as for fish being in pH 8.5....most of my fish are soft-water, acid lovers and they are just fine in this pH. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanker Posted April 24, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 24, 2005 OK, so apparently, from the hours and hours of research I have done.. Calgary is a Cichlid keepers paradise, and other fish will do OK, given a chance to aclimate to the high pH/mineral content. The main reason I was freaking out, is that all sources point to a constant pH level as being crucial to any fish's life. I have been subjecting (completely unknowingly, untill this week) my fish to rather violent swings in pH level by doing what I thought was the 'right' thing in changing water... The lesson to be learned? Oxegenate the water PRIOR to adding it to the tank, therefore equalizing the pH to the level of the tank, and reducing the possibility of shock to the fish's systems, and my tank's balances. I will be conducting my own tests tomorrow (Sunday) to determine the 'time out of the tap' vs. pH level changes so I will know how long to 'condition' the water for in the future based on a given volume. The point of this for me is to attain a balanced tank, but also provide the best (and free) replacement water for the fish upon the removal of waste water. Dropping my tanks pH/KH levels radically on a weekly basis is not in my best interests, so now that I know that a pH of 8.4 or so is what I'll have to live with I can adjust my own routine and keep my fish happier, overall. Of course, when I move to Edmonton in a few months, all of this will change... as will my tank setups, and the stock in those tanks... but the purpose of these next two months is to learn everything I can, so I make the mistakes with ten gallons, and not 150. Thanks for your input on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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