Milan Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 (edited) I'm having a problem with phosphates. They are off the scale on PO4 test (>5ppm), and I really don't know what is causing this. In the last 3-4 days I've been doing 40% WC daily, and they drop to ~ 2.5 ppm, but shortly after, they skyrocket again. Feeding is reduced to next to nothing, and still ... My tap water reads ~0.2 ppm. Substrate is composed of Laterite/Shultz AS/gravel. I have also embeded Seachem Flourish Tabs deep in there, but they claim there is no phosphates. Here is what it says on the package: Flourish Tabs™ are growth stimulating tablets for plant roots. They contain essential trace elements, amino acids, and vitamins. They are rich in iron, manganese, magnesium, calcium, potassium, inositol, choline B12, biotin, and other factors that have been determined to be beneficial to aquatic plant roots. They contain no phosphate or nitrate that would promote algae proliferation. Each pack of ten tablets treats a 12 X 30 inch plant bed twice. For best results, use in combination with Flourish™ I also use PMDD fertilizer NPK=0.75-0-1, made up of KNO3 and K2SO4. CO2 is produced from Sugar/wine yeast. I've got tired of water changes, so I added a pouch of PhosGuard to my filter yesterday. Today phosphates are still wild ... I'm running out of ideas how to deal with this. Further, this morning I found tiny little hair-like algaes on the front glass. Although my otos work diligently, seem like they can't keep up. Am I heading for disaster? Please help ... Edited July 25, 2005 by Milan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garhan Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 (edited) It sounds like you are doing everything right. I would keep up the water change and also do a vacum of any mulm or detrius in the tank. Algae sounds like hair algae (maybe). I found that if you grow hair algae you are still close to balance. Also calibrate your test kit by using 10 ml water sample and add regents based on 10 ml volume. So if you would add 3 drop of a regent per 2ml in test tube, then add 15 drops of regent in a 10 ml sample. Also take a water sample in and let LFS do a test to see if it compares to your findings. If it is accurate, then start using the Phosphate Free Solution until P04 has come down and keep up those 30%- 50% water changes. Let me know how you make out. I will also be in Calgary this week until Wednesday or Thursday Cell 780-499-1263. So I can save you money on your postage. Also looking at the photos of your tank I think the plant volume or density is to light for your fertilizing program. You may wish to cut the volume by 50-75%. You need more plants Garhan Edited July 25, 2005 by Garhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan Posted July 25, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Thanks Garhan. Will do. Hope it helps ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg Posted July 25, 2005 Report Share Posted July 25, 2005 Milan, How much Schultz AS did you add to your tank? Garhan, I'm actually running a test in my 30 cube with Schultz AS.(5 KG Schultz with 10KG gravel) I've read numerous post on other sites that it will increase PO4 in a tank. So far after 2 weeks mine is holding at just under 5ppm (slightly lighter blue than the 5ppm on my chart. ) Fish were added about four days ago. ( 2 3" SAE and 3 peppered corys. The tank was originally filled with 75% recycled water from my other tanks and 25% RO. So this might explain the high phosphate as my nitrate was also at 20ppm at the start. I would classify it as medium planted with java fern,moss, amazon swords and crypt balansea. I also added a dozen mixed stem of Ludwigia, cabomba and moneywort to help soak up some of the PO4/NO3 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan Posted July 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2005 (edited) Andy, your theory about Shultz-Phosphate connection is very intriguing. I have a bag (5kg) in a 29 gallon tank. It's layered underneath 1-1.5" of gravel. What I read about Shultz is that it does not have any nutrients, but high CEC (~30). But hey, ... claims are only good as much as they are proven. Too bad you reused the water in your new tank ... Otherwise we would know for sure. I think I may go to RONA and buy another bag, just to test it on phosphate. It's cheap and it may be worth, just to have a peace of mind ... I'm really tired of daily substantial water changes ... :grr: Update: Just phoned Schultz to find out what they say about phosphates. The answer was that it's highly unlikely, since it is 100% Fuller's Earth However, they will double check this and get back to me .. I'll keep you posted ... Edited July 26, 2005 by Milan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Milan, are you still having problems with your Phosphate? If so, take out the rock you have in the left front corner and rinse it with RO or distilled water ( to remove any trace of tank water) then soak it for acouple of days in RO/distilled water and take a PO4 reading. I had a similar rock in my 20 that was leaching PO4 like crazy (10+ppm) and it was'nt until I removed it that I got my levels down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan Posted August 4, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 It's down to sustainable 1 ppm now. Mind you I'm running a PhosGuard insert in my filter (and still ..). What in a haven does rock have to do with PO4 ????!! Hey, ... that's something I can certainly check, but if that's the case I'm taking (throwing) it back to the LFS ... Thanks for the hint ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 It took me by surprise too. I went through the tank eliminating possible sources one after the other until I came to that piece of rock. After a 2 day soak in RO the water tested at well over 10ppm PO4. I took it back to the lfs and tried to get them to replace it with something else, but no luck there. Interestingly enough, soon after they stopped carrying that particular rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garhan Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 With the concern on the Schultz Plant Soil I have not found or noticed a P)4 issue, but it is a valid point to clarify, although a friend of mine and I are experimenting with it in a 130 gallon tank (Well more him than I, but you need to share the pain with your friends to see what rebounds back). The tap water has a 5 degree KH and we are beginning to believe that it is the cause of a severe KH drop to less than 1 degree. There is only water and Schultz in the tank currently. Right now we(he) is boosting the KH with sodium bicarbonate to get it back to the desired 5 degrees for this setup. Once stabalized he will run another gambet of tests and then begin a C02 hookup with bubble counter and solinoid shut off to adjust the ph using a Milwakee PH meter to mnitor it through out the day. He has also contacted Schults on this to see if they have found the same issues or if infact to see if we are even on the right track on what altered the KH levels in this tank setup. So far no response back on this issue, but I am sure they will respond. I am under the impression that they truly care about what effects there product has on water. Originally lower grades of this baked clay was used as a spill absorbent. This higher grade may have some of these properties of absorbing ***possibly*** specific chemicals in the water. Does that still make it inert....mmmmm, I think so, but we need to be aware of these discrepancy's to adjust our water accordingly to make target. Cheers, Garhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milan Posted August 5, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Garhan, as far as I remember, I measured the KH among all other tests right after putting the Schultz in my tank, and found no significant difference. However, if the KH dropped, it could have been some time down the road. I have not performed this test lately, but in my opinion, with low KH and CO2 running around the clock, pH would suffer a significant dip, which i'm not seeing ... I'll test the KH again anyway ... Another thing that crossed my mind is that recently, here in Calgary we had tap water KH an pH screwed up, due to the weather. I would assume something similar happened in Edmonton too. Could that be coinciding with your/your friend's testing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garhan Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 (edited) There doesnt currently seem to be a relationship due to rainfall entring the watershed at this time, we really havent had that much rain in the past 2 weeks.. We pull dailey reports from EPCOR our water suppliers www. site on the water specs and also tested the tap water prior to placing in the tank. Garhan Edited August 6, 2005 by Garhan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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