acarriere Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hello, I decided to join because I'm planning on starting up a planted breeding aquarium for guppies. I currently have a 90 gallon aquarium with a turtle and guppies, and would like to do a pseudo-experiment to look at the behavioural plasticity of guppies in response to growing up in the presence of a perceived predator. Here's my situation: The survival of newly added juveniles is quite low, but those who do survive the bottleneck -- and some of these grow up to be colourful fancy-tailed males -- have no problem successfully breeding and growing to a ripe old age. My turtle only hunts the fish for the first couple of days they're in the tank, and once the fish learn to stay away from his face, he ignores them completely, and they have the run of the tank. (The turtle is an older guy, mostly herbivorous, who prefers an easy meal of banana or lettuce). My thought is that if I add fish into the tank as fry, rather than juveniles, by the time they grow to 'morsel size', they'll be wise in the ways of the turtle tank, and will be able to thrive there. Currently, fry born into the tank do well; however, I would like to start populating the tank with fancier varities of guppies (i.e., not feeders). Has anyone here tried something like this before? Or know where a better place to post this kind of question would be? I realized partway through this 'hello' message that it probably belongs in a different forum... Amanda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks Posted November 15, 2012 Report Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hello, I decided to join because I'm planning on starting up a planted breeding aquarium for guppies. I currently have a 90 gallon aquarium with a turtle and guppies, and would like to do a pseudo-experiment to look at the behavioural plasticity of guppies in response to growing up in the presence of a perceived predator. Here's my situation: The survival of newly added juveniles is quite low, but those who do survive the bottleneck -- and some of these grow up to be colourful fancy-tailed males -- have no problem successfully breeding and growing to a ripe old age. My turtle only hunts the fish for the first couple of days they're in the tank, and once the fish learn to stay away from his face, he ignores them completely, and they have the run of the tank. (The turtle is an older guy, mostly herbivorous, who prefers an easy meal of banana or lettuce). My thought is that if I add fish into the tank as fry, rather than juveniles, by the time they grow to 'morsel size', they'll be wise in the ways of the turtle tank, and will be able to thrive there. Currently, fry born into the tank do well; however, I would like to start populating the tank with fancier varities of guppies (i.e., not feeders). Has anyone here tried something like this before? Or know where a better place to post this kind of question would be? I realized partway through this 'hello' message that it probably belongs in a different forum... Amanda What you need to do is get a glass or plastic tube about six inches around and put the fish inside that in the tank. Make sure it cannot be broken by your turtle. Once he tries to get them a few times unsuccessfully he will learn that these fish are unatainable. This method is not fool proof but definately works. Give it a try and it might save you money on fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted December 24, 2012 Report Share Posted December 24, 2012 (edited) Hello and welcome to AA. Everybody has a different 'welcome'...what counts is that you did make the post in the 1st place! I'd have to say generally MANY people do this however not out of will but just of current tank stock. Those little skiddish type fish, guppy, tetra etc have it in their dna to be cautious just as a cichlid has in their dna to be aggressive. Yes, location, population of inhabitants, environment can produce fish to be either skiddish or aggressive I won't discount that...I tend not to over look their genetic behavior traits. Fry growing up since birth in the presence of a predator will give them advantage over the little unfortunate fishies who have not had those predator 'flight' experiences. Until that behavior is learned as you witnessed, it is a slaughter. Now, my question is it 100% individual learned or is there any sort of parenting involved! ...again welcome to AA and Merry Christmas. Edited December 24, 2012 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acarriere Posted January 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2013 Now, my question is it 100% individual learned or is there any sort of parenting involved! That's a good question, and I think the answer might depend on how you define 'parenting'. I know that some fish emit alarm chemicals when they encounter a predator, and it could be that young fish growing up in a dangerous tank 'learn' from older residents in this way. Or there could be maternal effects: a live-bearing female exposes her offspring to stress hormones that 'tell' them what kind of world to 'expect' after they're born. (Though if maternal effects have a strong influence, my pseudo-experiment shouldn't work, because the pregnant females are in a relatively safe tank.) In any case, I think it would be adaptive for fish to 'learn' at least a bit from others -- there's not a lot of room for them to learn from their own mistakes if they live with a turtle! I apologize for the rampant anthropomorphizing. I know these little guys don't have a lot going on, intellect-wise, but it's easier to talk that way Happy holidays Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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