Jayba Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Nice Angels! Like always there is some windbag that has to ruin the post. I think this was a uncalled for comment. I found the exchange of opinions very informative it is obvious both Rainbowric and RD are both knowledgeable on the subject and we can learn from their conversation and even form our own opinions so keep it coming guys I enjoy the read its a nice change from some of the fluff, and classified ads for equipment and livestock. FLY I agree. Both are good information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted January 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) What temperature are you keeping them in Jay ? I have them at 81 degrees. They are sharing space with a dozen or so L-134 plecos and a mishmash of Rams Temperature, and water quality, pH, TDS, is more important than vitamix supplements - what are the water parameters of this tank for these Angels. If they eat it they will grow, just feed them a lot of good frozen food, shrimp pellets and vary it with a good dry food. I grow F1 Altums to 6-8" in under 9 months this way from a twoonie size, no medicated food and not one color enhancer. KISS principle works best. Because they are wild caught I will running a course of meds, then after that, simply good Red Deer water and a varied diet. My water parameters are below. Hardness mg/L 150 - 250 Hardness Grains/gal (US) 9 -14 pH 7.87 - 8.05 Total Dissolved Solids mg/L 190 – 224 Combined Chlorine Residual mg/L 1.2 – 2.2 Edited January 23, 2013 by Jayba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORG Posted January 23, 2013 Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 It will be interesting to see how they fare in the higher ph long term. I have heard that a high ph is what burns their fins. Why this only applies to Altums and some of the other rarer angels is a mystery to me. I have 8 large Amapa river angels that came in the same shipment and they have no problems with their fins. Here are a few more pics of the Manacapuru angels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted January 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 What PH are you keeping yours at? Are you on a well? Or cutting water with RO water? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 6.5-6.8pH on Calgary tap water no meds with little or no fin burn. Key to shipping Angels is putting carbon in the bag, low pH and keeping them warm with extra heat packs. I feed mine shrimp pellets for one week as it removes waste from their gut which is bacterial and parasitic, gets them eating due to its attractant properties and move to bloodworms and high aeration of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Sorry I have a CO2 injector with regulator with a highly planted tank that they land in. In the first week I will do three water changes to keep ammonia down to Zero and with the low pH they can tolerate the small spikes that happen. The higher the pH the more critical the ammonia conc monitoring as there is less room for error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Gorgeous angels by the way. The Manas are a lot more forgiving than the Altums and a lot less aggressive. Amazing angels with the color and size! Wish I could get some one day soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORG Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 What PH are you keeping yours at? Are you on a well? Or cutting water with RO water? Not sure what the ph is right now last time I tested it about 2 years ago it was 6.8. I,m on a well. Gorgeous angels by the way. The Manas are a lot more forgiving than the Altums and a lot less aggressive. Amazing angels with the color and size! Wish I could get some one day soon. I found these Manacapuru's to be very aggressive. I'm expecting 25 Altums tomorrow , hopefully if things go well I can make a comparison. Heiko Bleher has proclaimed in the last issue of Amazonas magazine that the smallest of all angels the Manacapuru"s should be classified as pterophyllum eimekei . This has not gone unnoticed by IBAMA and if it is excepted, the Manacapurus will no longer be exported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Do you use Furan? I find it useful for the first three or four days to ensure that if there is damage/stress from shipping it reduced the chance of bacteria getting a foothold in the fish. Get them eating after that and you are homefree! Let me know what your comparison is between the two. I have Leopoldi and Peruvian Scalares as well and find that they are all more aggressive than captive breds. So it may be a comparison between wild and captive fish, as it was something that I read in the latest Amazonas and TFH publication. I just heard about these fish about 6 months ago and now you have them - amazing how we get some of the rarest fish in Alberta! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JORG Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 I'm going to use a prescription antibiotic on the Altums this time, It kept all the Manacapuru's alive and has been working well on all the pleco's, discus, apisto's etc. since we started using it. The last few shipments of Altums all ended badly so this will be the last kick at the can with them if it doesn't go better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 Let me know if you have any issues - I can always pretend to help but post pics when you do. Its the first 72 hours that the panic mode stays on, then you're golden. Make sure that they are kept really warm in transport, I have a lot of tannins in my water due to bogwood but I am sure you will be fine. Keep us posted. If it doesn't go well then I have some Altums I can trade you - 6" 9month olds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 (edited) So here are a update couple pictures. I have moved them into a 125 gallon tank. They were beating the crud out of each other. Now they seem better. Some fins are getting better, other fins are still down to the dorsal spines hope they improve! In there with them are 15 L-134 Leopard Frog Pleco's. 6 Bolivian Rams 5 Female german Rams 6 Electric Blue Rams 6 Green Lazer corydoras 6 Mcculach rainbowfish (thats not what they are, but whatever a whack of juvi BN Everyone seems to be doing well Edited February 3, 2013 by Jayba Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjerrom Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 The rays will come up as they become the dominant fish in the tank and their pectoral fins look good and will grow back. Are they eating well? Get them on the bloodworms and anything with high protein and their fins will grow back quickly. Any pics of the Altums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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