Kevin

I have not heard of it either. It will not surprise me if the dominant female eats all of the eggs - if she raised them it would not be smart from an evolution perspective. Lets see some more pictures of your discus Tammy! Kevin

Connie, They are beautiful. All of the fish pictures look very healthy and happy. I would like to see a better picture of the white faced/blue faced melon. She looks like she has the makings of a real stunner. Kevin

Slow it down girl. Let them get settled down for one more week before you get frustrated. Get them used to you and looking for your feeding cues. Then pick their most voracious feeding time and try just a little of the new food before you feed them anything else. If they don't even look at it yet, then give them the food they will eat and then give them 1 day where they miss their regular feedings, then try the little bit of food again. Good luck, Kevin

I sugest an xp3 to go with your xp2 as a good start. I have had good service from my Rena canister filters and absolutely no issues with them. That's what I would add J I disagree - although I now run an FX5 on my big (120 gallon) discus tank, I am a much bigger fan of using HOBs (AC110s) with 2 foam pads. Every week you can clean the lower pad (where the food sits) and shift down the top pad - thus maintaining good bacteria population levels. This is a 3 minute job and keeps the accumulated waste levels low in the filter. I find it a real pain to rip down my cannister filter once a month to clean it out. Putting clean water through a dirty filter - gives you dirty water - just a thought. Kevin

Tonka Bear good luck, you are getting very good advice. I just wanted to say that I am very impressed by the feedback that you are getting. It is nice to see that the people that I tried to help with discus advice are now succesful and able to help others. Once you get discus requirements down, they become as easy to keep as any other fish, only much more rewarding. Kevin

I found that 55 gallon water barrells (for storing rain water) from the hardware store to be ideal. They are hard and will not fold like a garbage can. They also have drains near the bottom of them so if you can raise them up in a stand, you can gravity feed out of the water barrel. I have been running 75% water changes straight from the tap for 2 months (with prime) and seeing no negatives. But I am in Invermere and the water seems to be slightly more stable (.2 change in PH vs .4 in Calgary). My opinion is that do whatever you can to change the water. What is imperitive is that the water termperatures stay the same (within 1 degree F). I would take out the sand and the plants until everyone is healthy. Healthy discus in a bare bottom tank look much better then unhealthy discus in a planted tank. Master discus in a barebottom before you try 1 pair in a 90 gallon planted. Please feel free to PM me with questions, or PM me your number and I will call you to help you through this difficult time. I have been where you are and I know how much it sucks, hopefully we can turn it around. Kevin

I hate to be a jerk, but go back to our original posts about discus from 4 months ago: - you have kept discus with other tank mates - you have kept them in overstocked tanks - you have kept them in planted tanks with gravel which is notoriously difficult - you only do one water change a week (I do 4-6) - you have not quarantined new fish I don't know how many of these are still true, but they all add stress to the fish. What has happened is that your discus are showing a general breakdown from being kept in a less than ideal environment for too long. As they are stressed for longer periods of time, they become susceptible to more diseases. The dark color and lower appetite is a reaction to stress. Even if you have not seen clear string poop, internal parasites are still doing their work. The twitching is a result of stress and likely external flukes. The only thing you can do to try and save your fish is give them an ideal environment and let them try and heal on their own. Give them an adequately sized bare bottom tank. Crank the temperature over a week to 88-90 F. Change 75% of their water daily with treated water at the same temperature (no there is no ph issue with Calgary water unless you are messing with the PH, but I did have better luck in Calgary ageing my water for 24 hours). With luck you can save half of your discus. People can diss experienced discus keepers for being anal about these things, and you can probably do some of these things and not have problems, but if want to be succesful with discus there is one proven way and many ways that can be less succesful. With my first discus I thought - this is overkill I don't need to do all this, but it ends in heartbreak and I feel very bad for you. If you want to see the results of stressed fish - look at the fish in Dalray's photos for sale. The discus being kept with African cichlids are showing many signs of stress and early disease. So it is not unusual to make these kind of errors keeping discus. Kevin

Firestorm, the pair is probably worth about $250 to $300. I would love to see the baby's that Dalray is growing out, show us some pictures. Kevin

I just saw this - definitely ammonia burn. Look for whatever dead thing is causing the ammonia spike as well or it will happen again. Kevin

Leave them be. Discus pairs can take a number of times to learn. They are poor parent's compared to other cichlids. Nice fish, the female has a very striking background color. Good luck

Yeh, my fish came from Kenny's Discus and my experience has been incredibly positive so far.

There are a few out there - at least one in Calgary (I have seen his fry at auction). Lots of people try to breed discus, few are succesful or last. I eventually would like to breed - as a natural extension of the hobby, but not to make money. To give you an idea of the experience and time it takes, one of my mentors "Spidey Steve" on the forum took 3 years straight to raise, pair, breed and have a viable school of juvies. Are you an experienced breeder? What are you hoping to achieve? Where did you get the nice cobalts that were for sale? Kevin

Look like healthy fish with a good start. Let me know how they do and if you need anything. Kevin

Thanks Quinn, they still have a long way to go, but there is some potential there. Shouldn't you be in bed? It is a school night. Good night.

After all of the discus discussion I wanted to share my current little projects with you. Here is a sampling of the fish that I am raising. They are now 3-4 inches and I have had them for just over 2 months now. Kevin

I have never kept the Jurupari, but the other earth eaters I have kept would be too aggressive for discus. But it all depends on the individual fish. I do know that I would get the discus eating and healthy before I tried anything new. Kevin

There is minimal difference between the 2. Now that my discus are on it, the NLS is wonderful. However it is not easy to convice discus to try it. I would say that NLS would be the last food I would train the discus to. Good starting foods I have found are Tetra crisps, Tetra bits, or Tetra Earth worm flake with mysis. I am not a Tetra fan and I feed NLS to all of my other tanks, but the discus seem more willing to try these alternatives. My latest batch started on the Tetra crisps and now they will eat anything. By the way, make sure that there is plenty of aeration in your tanks. The waters ability to hold gas goes down as it gets warmer. The discus may like it, but they breath much faster in warmer water as well. Kevin

My advice would be to think about the environment these discus came from - in the wild and since then. The discus you have came out of an environment so bizarre in the wild that it is nearly impossible to create. This is speaking from experience, I was there in 1993. Since then they have been been held in plastic, concrete and glass holding tanks with nothing but lots off other fish in them. So the discus have never seen gravel, aquatic plants (only submerged terrestrial plants) and they most likely have always had many more discus around them. Added to that, you are changing their diet and likely the temperature that they are being kept in. To help with this situation I would transfer at least one seasoned filter to the 55 gallon tank (this is key as discus absolutely require mature filtration media. Keep it without decorations. Match temperature with your existing tank. Transfer all of your discus to the new tank. Use the new tank to raise the temperature over a week to 88 F, this will stimulate their appetite. You transfer the discus that are eating because they learn from the example of the other fish and it will keep them more comfortable. With a barebottom tank you will be able to treat if needed for any medical reason and do lots and lots of water changes. Once your discus are absolutley on track (it may take 2 months or more), then you can decide where you would like them to live. Just my thoughts, Kevin

A sticky is a good idea, but only if the posts were consoliated and edited - there was just too much negativity at the start. Unfortunately, very few people read discus tips and actually believe them. Nearly everyone, inlcuding me, have to learn the hard way. Kevin

Oh Tammy, that makes my heart melt - comparing her to when she was a 2 inch long little grey fish. I am glad she is healthy. She is showing amazingly little pepper for being in such a dark back ground - you must take very good care of her water. She has a very high body/forehead - if you found a clean PB male I am sure they would make nice round little babys. How are the rest of the fish doing - I am particularly curious about the blue turk that had the question mark marking behind his gills. He had the potential to be a real monster as well. Kevin

Well siad Tammy, success is having happy discus. Really sorry if my post seemed preachy, there has been alot of good advice given up top. Discus are not hard to keep, but they do have specific requirements that will make it much easier to have happy healthy fish. I get very passionate about it because I learned the hard way - My first tank mix was 6 jeuvie discus, 5 boesmani rainbow, 3 acaras, 3 bolivian rams and various plecos. They all died a slow and painful death as they got sick and I tried everything (new bare bottom tank, water aging system, many tricks to get them eating). The only survivor was one little runted blue diamond that Tammy owns now - what a survivor. I don't want you to go through the same thing as I remember how much sleep I lost when my fish were sick. Tammy, I would love to talk to you about the tank conditions that you had for wigglers and your hatch rates. Your experience has surely outstripped mine, from what I have heard you have saved some really sick fish and grown out some monsters. Please post pics. Early riser, I would love to see some pics of your discus. I will borrow an SLR and take some pictures of my current grow outs. Geleen, I agree on the 55 regarding stocking ect. I only suggested a 55 they are small enough to be set up quickly and can be set up for under $200 with filter and heater if you watch your pennies. The best solution in my mind would be 6 adults in that 90 gallon and move everyone else out. An understocked tank of beautfiul glowing fish can be very attractive. I had a planted 90 with 2 adults and dithers and it was stunning. Firestorm - I am sure that you will do a great job with your fish. It sounds like you are on your way to a real case of multiple tank syndrome. You may have to focus your hobby a little more on a few less species of fish. This is very hard to do for all us of though. Good luck, Kevin

Wow where did you get such a diverse group from? My advice would be the same as geleen's go to simply discus and read - then believe what you read. Most people - me included - first read the "best practices" and then think, well I am not really set up for that so I won't do this or that. So then most people - including me - end up mourning the loss of their first group of dicus. Definitely increase your temperature to 86 degrees. I keep my jeuvies at 86-88. Temperatures lower then 82 are asking for trouble. Group your discus by size - not by type. Put all of the babies in a tank together by themselve. They stand a much better chance of growing into nice big discus that way as they will not have to compete with the adults for food. You will be okay keeping all the adults together until the pair decides to lay eggs (if they ever do). Also - jeuvies do much better with 4-6 feedings a day and daily water changes (they are in their growth window now - they should be 4 inches long at 6 months - and they will grow another 1.5 to 2 inches in the next 6 months. If you miss the growth window now, they will likely not grow much more). Adults you can feed once a day and do weekly water changes. If the discus are grouped up near the top of the water, make sure there is sufficient aeration in the tank. Good luck with your fish. If they are healthy, they should settle down and start eating in the next couple of days. The first few weeks with new discus are critical, so please PM me if you have any more questions. Kevin

Why go to elite when you can just go its mother store...Danny at Wai's owns elite. And if you are at wais you can go to ocean city as well. Go to elite because Colby is a good guy and he will take the time to help you. I am a big fan of any of the independent's except for Pisces (shudder). Any one at Gold's, Riverfront, Elite, Franco's or Wai's definitely care about fish. If you go in and ask them for recommendations, you can't go wrong. Kevin

Quinn - she is showing off her new fish and you have nothing nice to say. If it was helpful that would be ok, but in two posts you have proven you know little about discus. The spots come and go on the fins - generally when they are settling into a new tank. There has been discussion on discus boards on these before and no-one is entirely sure of their nature. I feel that they are probably just bacteria on blemishes that disapear once the fish settles. Much like the bacteria that forms on the rim of the fins after a slight ammonia burn from bagging. Ich is rarely an issue for discus as they like water that is 82-88 degrees. However if you are keeping the fish at 80, and the fish have received a temperature shock then they are susceptible tp ich. The fish do not look stressed out, they are very lovely blues and I would trade any one of my discus for the discus in the third picture. I am not sure on the collecting local, but this looks alot like what some call a Royal Blue. What is really interesting is that these two fish are so different they may have come from collecting areas hundreds of kms apart. If this came in with a wild shipment, you did very well as wilds that nice very rarely make it to western Canada (we are the last stop on the wild discus distributor train). Please PM me if Denis has anymore like that. Regarding water chemistry - it is a myth that discus need modified PH and KH. That is only true for hatching the eggs, and that has even been done in Calgary water. What is most important is lots of clean water changes that have constant temperature, PH and KH/GH. In Calgary the easiest way to do that is to preheat and age your water changing water. Having your water age in a holding tank and be brought to the same temperature as your tank is something that has made a huge difference to my discus keeping. The following are not to be critical, but to help. Regarding tank mates, I am a purist and believe that discus will do best by themselve or with smaller less agressive tank mates. Lots of different combinations can work, but I can forsee problems for you if you are keeping them with Africans and Angels. They might be ok today, but as the other fish grow it will get worse. Angels and Africans are more agressive than discus, they will stress the fish out eventually which can lead to eventual death. I also forsee problems with your stocking levels. I think that you siad that was a 90 gallon tank. With all those fish in there, unless you are doing 1-2 50% plus water changes a week, your nitrates will get too high and will weaken the fish. Weak discus will stop eating and wither away and die. Planted discus tanks - these are tricky but can be done. Some discus do fine in them, and others do not. The only tricky thing will be temperature. To stimulate your discus' appetites you should raise the temperature to ~86 until they get used to you and your food. Increased temperature is also a way to fight certain discus ailments. Your plants will not do well at that temperature. Also the plants need to be thriving to add to the well being of the fish. Someone on the forum once siad, "If you take care of your plants, they will take care of your fish". I could be wrong, but it does not look like you have to cut back your plants every week to see the fish. If your plants are just getting by, then they could start to decompose and eventually lead to water issues. One thing I did notice from the pictures is that the new fish is pic #1 has cloudy eyes. Keep an eye on it and if it gets any worse treat with salt (tough on plants unfortunately). I can see your other fish in pic #1, I would love to see another shot of it. It has a nice fat forehead. I think you asked about Prazipro. I know that Riverside has some, but I don't know how much it is. The cheapest Canadian place on the web is petsandponds.com. Your fish look like they are in pretty great shape though and I don't know if I would treat them as medication adds stress to fish. Are your new fish eating? What are you feeding them? What temperature are you keeping them at? What kind of water changes are you planning? Please let me know how getting them eating goes. Training wilds on anything other then FBW can be very difficult. Good luck with those beautiful fish. Pm me if you would like to discuss more. Sorry about the information dump above, but I am very passionate about discus. Kevin