RDFISHGUY Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 This fish was purchased as a tangerine tiger though I believe it is most likely a Chizumulu variant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Eye Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Could he be a Protomelas stevensi "Tumbi Reef" Cuz these are known as tangerine tigers sometimes? As I got one a while ago. although.. does look a bit different then urs Urs seems to have a lot more red then mine though.. So maybe not!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharon Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I would definately say a Protomelas , but I am not sure which varient might be a stevensi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) Check this out http://www.cichlidforum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1240 Edited November 23, 2006 by RDFISHGUY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) It's a Protomelas "Likoma", as are all of the Tangerine Tigers that originate from S. Florida. Also commonly referred to as Hap Steveni by some of the old schoolers. It may in fact be this species? Protomelas sp. "Spilonotus Likoma" http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1237 Old World Exotics list this fish as steveni tangerine tiger from Likoma. If you view this transhippers list (from Old World) you'll find your fish on the farm list. (yellow portion) listed as steveni Likoma - tangerine tiger. Edited November 23, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 That looks nothing like my fish , he may well list it as such but that doesn't mean that is what it is . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 What looks nothing like your fish, the fish on CF? IMO the only fish listed on CF as a Tangerine Tiger, is not what is commonly sold in the trade as a Tangerine Tiger. It's not just Laif that lists Tangerine Tigers as being Likoma variants, all of the farms from S. Florida list them as that. (including Pablo's) Keep in mind that a lot of these fish didn't have their current classifications (many had none at all) when they were first exported from Malawi. At that time they were considered a Proto, sp. steveni, and collected from Likoma. Make of that what you will, they've been line bred for many, many generations since the early imports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) Be that as it may if you google them and look at the pictured fish they don't have red in their fins. At least not the ones I looked at . Add to that the fact that these guys are selling them by old trade names and who knows what you've got . They may have been sold originally as something they're not currently classified as. I may be wrong, who knows. Chizumulu and Likoma are very close in geographic origin so you also need to take that into consideration. Edited November 23, 2006 by RDFISHGUY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 23, 2006 Report Share Posted November 23, 2006 (edited) Yes, some of them do in fact show red anal fins, but the entire lot of "tigers" listed by exporters & importers is what's caused the real confusion here. Imperial Tiger, Imperial Tigress (the Tanzanian variant), Steveni Tiger, and Tangerine Tiger. Keep in mind that some of the people using old trade names, such as Laif, have actually been to Malawi & collected fish from these locations. He even had a species named after him, Ps. DeMasoni. I wouldn't be so quick to discount what he's listing his fish as. He might be using old trade names, and as frustrating as that may be at times, I suspect that he knows what he's selling. I believe that the fish exported as Steveni Imperials, Imperial Tiger, and Imperial Tigress, have yellow shoulders, and according to Ad Konings should be assigned to Protomelas virgatus. Konings explains some of this confusion in his 3rd edition of Malawi Cichlids in their natural habitat. IOW, the fish shown on CF as a Tangerine Tiger, is actually an Imperial Tiger, at least as far as common names go. http://www.cichlid-forum.com/profiles/species.php?id=1365 As far as that goes, there have been many mistakes in the CF profiles, and I certainly wouldn't use a single photo of a variant posted there by joe hobbyist as confirmation on a variant ID. The P. Steveni Tiger, and Tangerine Tiger, are one in the same fish. Not a great photo, but you can clearly see the red in the anal fin in the example below. http://www.exotic-cichlids.com/P.StevenitigerLikoma.htm The current names that this species are sold under are Protomelas taeniolatus (Likoma Island), Protomelas steveni (Likoma) Protomelas taeniolatus Steveni Tiger, Protomelas taeniolatus Tangerine Tiger, etc. Is it possible that the Chizumula variant is exported & sold under the same trade name as the Likoma variant (Steveni Tiger), absolutely, and here's just such an example; http://www.africanaquatic.com/index.php?main_page=page_2 but considering the fact that all of the farms in FL (including Old World) have been breeding the Tangerine Tiger variant for many years, and they all refer to it as being from Likoma, I would suspect that's where your fish originally came from. BTW - no matter what location your fish's line originally came from, it's a great looking specimen. Edited November 23, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 Thanks Neil, I tried to get them to send me a picture from african aquatic and I also asked if its the same species as protomelas taeniolatus- tangerine tiger-Likoma just to see if they actually import 2 different species or if they are one in the same. The other picture from exotic cichlids has a slightly different stripe pattern though it is a much closer match. It'll be interesting to hear from them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 24, 2006 Report Share Posted November 24, 2006 (edited) Ryan - if you really want to get to the bottom of this, my advice would be to go straight to the source. Old World Exotic Fish Laif DeMason P.O. Box 970583 Miami, FL 33197 Phone: 305-248-6640 Fax: 305-245-4228 Pablo used to deal with Eric Fleet, but he left Malawi in the late 1970's I believe. The exact collection location for some of these early fish will most likely remain a mystery forever. As it is, no one is exactly certain where the original pair of yellow labs were collected (by Eric Fleet) which Pierre Brichard later went on to breed in Burundi. Pablo was told Kakusa, Ad Konings told me that he personally felt that it was Mbowe Island, but he was not 100% certain either. Now factor in how many years some of these fish have been selectively bred in S. Florida, and I doubt that you'll ever know with 100% certainty exactly where the original strain of your proto was collected. edited to add ...... I spoke with Pablo this morning, and according to him his original Tangerine Tigers were exported by Eric Fleet as Protomelas taeniolatus sp. Steveni (Likoma). HTH Edited November 24, 2006 by RD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 I went to their web-site and could only find one picture and it doesn't resemble the fish I have. Couln't find an e-mail or anything so I'll try to call on my days off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 The photo on Old Worlds that they are referring to as a Hap. stevensi tangerine tiger, is incorrect. The fish shown is a Proto cf. virgatus Ndumbi, Likoma, and the exact same photo can be found on page 140 of Ad Konings Malawi Cichlids in their natural habitat 3rd edition. That species has never been imported or sold in the trade as Tangerine Tiger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDFISHGUY Posted November 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 Here's the info I got from African Aquatic:From: "African Aquatic" <info@africanaquatic.com> To: "'R. Gillies'" <rdfishguy@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Protomelas taeniolatus - Steveni tiger- Chisumulu Date: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:43 AM Hi, Sorry I have not pictures of this fish. I have just called my supplier in Malawi to ask if there are any differences in the fish "Protomelas taeniolatus" caught from Chisumulu and Likoma, he said no. Chisumulu is a two boat ride from Likoma, so both areas are fished at the same time. Tangerine tiger is a trade name used by some suppliers, I always use species name - then location were the fish were caught. Hope that that helps Regards Paul African Aquatic _____ From: R. Gillies [mailto:rdfishguy@hotmail.com] Sent: 24 November 2006 01:48 To: info@africanaquatic.com Subject: Protomelas taeniolatus - Steveni tiger- Chisumulu I was wondering if I could possibly get a picture of this species e-mailed to rdfishguy@hotmail.com. I was also wondering if this is the same fish sold as protomelas taeniolatus- Tangerine tiger- Likoma. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. Here's the info I got from African Aquatic:From: "African Aquatic" <info@africanaquatic.com> To: "'R. Gillies'" <rdfishguy@hotmail.com> Subject: RE: Protomelas taeniolatus - Steveni tiger- Chisumulu Date: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:43 AM Hi, Sorry I have not pictures of this fish. I have just called my supplier in Malawi to ask if there are any differences in the fish "Protomelas taeniolatus" caught from Chisumulu and Likoma, he said no. Chisumulu is a two boat ride from Likoma, so both areas are fished at the same time. Tangerine tiger is a trade name used by some suppliers, I always use species name - then location were the fish were caught. Hope that that helps Regards Paul African Aquatic _____ From: R. Gillies [mailto:rdfishguy@hotmail.com] Sent: 24 November 2006 01:48 To: info@africanaquatic.com Subject: Protomelas taeniolatus - Steveni tiger- Chisumulu I was wondering if I could possibly get a picture of this species e-mailed to rdfishguy@hotmail.com. I was also wondering if this is the same fish sold as protomelas taeniolatus- Tangerine tiger- Likoma. Any info you have would be greatly appreciated. Once again Neil , your take on these guys is Yoda - like and I'm a monkey's uncle LOL. ... At least I got a satisfactory answer and to those of you watching its no misnomer. At least we had an intelligent debate and got to the bottom of it. Even though I was wrong I learned something from it at least .... DON'T ARGUE WITH NEIL. If you chose to.... you'd be better off just drinking right out of the fountain of stupid because that's how you'll feel when he's done with you. And I'm not thirsty any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 26, 2006 Report Share Posted November 26, 2006 LOL, well I'm glad that we finally got that cleared up! :beer: The only reason that I'm so familiar with most of the old trade names, is because I deal with someone who still uses all of the old trade names. As confusing as that may be at times for hobbyists, I suppose for the importers & wholesalers it's less confusing for their customers than changing names on their list every time that someone decides to reclassify a bunch of species. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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