Discus people...help me!

[wandj]

I have a couple of spare tanks in my fishroom. I will have to suck the water out of them first because they are running on my tap (bad). I will transfer water out of the tank they are in as the water parameters suit them best. I will put some RO in the small tanks as well. Let it heat to 90, then move the Discus. I think I will be very busy this morning. What a pain in the A**!

[AndyL]

DO NOT PUT SALT INTO THE TANK ! MPE/O. Salt kills discus.

All I'm going to say, is if you check out simplydiscus and any other reputable discus site - the accepted method is always salt and heat.

Andy

[Pelle31]

Salt kills Discus?????? Ok then!!! :bang1: I already Pm'd you on where to get the BEST advice. I would say that moving the discus and mixing meds will be worse then using salt. If going with metro change 50% water every 8 hours and replace meds with amount lost.

[RD.]

Lots of good advice here, but if you follow the info in the first link I posted, and stick with it, that should do the trick. If not, then there are other meds you can try. If you see no improvement after 5 days, perform another large water change, let them rest for 24 hours, then try a more aggressive medication.

I agree with Smokey, do not mix meds.

If the feces is clear then you have internal problems, and salt won't help in that regards. Adding salt aka sodium chloride (NaCl) at this stage may even cause you additional problems.

At this point you do not want fluid retention in these fish.

Also .......

If going with metro change 50% water every 8 hours and replace meds with amount lost.

Met doesn't work that way, a 50% water change every 8 hours is correct, but you need to add a FULL dose of metronidazole after each water change, not just what you removed via the water change. After 8 hours whatever met is left is no longer active in the tank water.

BTW - the info in the link I provided on Spironucleus was originally posted on DPH by Fred Goodall & Dougall Stewart, and IMO is the most current information available regarding this disease.

Edited April 22, 2005 by RD.

[wandj]

Ohhhh...my head is spinning. Salt...no salt....move...don't move...

Well, I have moved the smaller one. He was very easy to move. He is in a 20gal in a nice, quiet, dark basement. I did add a bit of salt, but it's a very low dose. I didn't read RD's last post until after I did it. But the salt is quite low...can't hurt. Just a sponge and an air stone in there. Bare bottom. Heater cranked to 90. I left the 2 big ones alone in the 55gal. I'm just going to keep an eye one them and keep the meds up in the tank. All my other fish don't seem to notice a thing...even those finicky Ottos are still scrounging around for food. SimplyDiscus.com has some posts from Beginners that sound EXACTLY like my problem...and I PM'd Al there. I don't know what else I can do. Just a waiting game now. I wish I could tell my LFS that they are a crappy store, but they will say "the fish were fine in our tanks". Whatever. Small town.

(One time they had a Mango pleco there and when I went to the counter to ask about it, the staff asked me to show them what it looked like)

[Garhan]

I hope all works out for you. I will also offer to come over and view your discus to give a diagnosis, if it helps you out.

I travel alot in my buisness and as a result I am very familiar with most good LFS in Alberta and Northern BC. Bar none Gold's consistently has the best quality stock for the fair price as does on occasion Pieces Emporium in Calgary. Travelling with discus for 2-4 hours or even longer is by far a simple task. it is stressful on fish each time there moved regaurdless of the distance travelled. 2-4 hours in a bag, is alot less stress than 2-7 days in a bag with no water change coming from South America, Singapore or Germany.

As what you are currently doing with the little guy your spot on. Keep that tank setup for future quarintine. No water needed when nothing is being treated.

Garhan

[wandj]

Just checked on the little guy. He is a lot lighter in color....but I don't know if that's a good thing.

I threw in a small red wiggler just to see if it is gone next time I check..never know. (I doubt it) Bare bottom tank is easy to see the worm if I want to take it out. (I notice those worms can live over a MONTH in the tank!)

I called the vet to ask for liquid Metro...nope...they don't have anything for fish. (Small town!) Now I have to go to my wonderful LFS and buy the powdered stuff again. I will use that for the food...if they ever start eating. I'll use the Paragon 2 for treatment.

Any advice on Paragon 2? Hope I'm not making another mistake.

[wandj]

Awwww....the little one is dead.

When I looked him over before pulling him out, I noticed he was very dark again and had quite a few more white "lesions" on his body. He never showed any signs of recovery at all.

The other 2 are in the same condition they were since I got them. They don't look any different....they still have some pits around their face. They still won't eat.

Just topped the tank up finally with my last half-bucket of RO. Added another dose of Metro.

Temp is up to 92.

Lights out for them....and me....it's been a bad day.

[Pelle31]

sorry to hear that!! Hopefully the other two will fair alot better.

RD thanks for correcting me in my post,I guess I should wake up before typing :chair:

[wandj]

UPDATE!

I have been putting live Red Wigglers on Veggie-clips and sticking them on the side of the tank....hoping a live, moving worm would entice them to eat over anything else I might try. Last night, I noticed the worm was gone...but because I'm such a pessimist, I thought the worm had wiggled itself off and died in my gravel. (I had picked out a dead worm that wiggled off the previous day).

This morning, I put 2 clips out. I came back 15 minutes later and one worm was missing again. So I put another one there and planted my butt and watched for awhile. After about 5 minutes, one fish snuck up and bit the worm!!

He/she tugged at it for a few secs and I SAW IT EAT!!

Yay!

I don't know about the other one, but they both look good...so maybe no more loss!

I'd like to thank you all for your advice....I learned a lot and it probably saved my remaining fish. And I also learned not to darken the doorway of my LFS again.

And here's a quick question. Be honest......should I be pissed off at my LFS for selling me an $80 doomed fish? (After all I read, I know it was sick in the LFS)

Is this common for pet stores to be so ignorant and sell sick crap all the time?

:well:

[Garhan]

I dont know about pissed off, but certainly I would share the experience in a positive light with the management team at the LFS in writting. For example how you learned about medications, diagnostics and costs related, about potential investation of other tank mates, risks associated with purchasing from any LFS that doesnt understand there product. etc...I likely would not purchase another discus from them if they dont know how to take care of them. You will learn through trial and error that some of the LFS you can buy fish from and some just hardware and food items.

For myself I try to not buy fish from a LFS that runs there tanks on a central system. I prefer each tank on its own filtration system. From a buisness stand point it would be expensive, but on the other hand if the owner truely is interested in selling you quality, healthy fish, then they would know that this is the way to go with a tank filtration system. I do understand the opposing arguements and as a buisnessman with no compasion associated to the product other than the bottomline, I myself might run a central system. If I am forced to do so then those fish go straight to quarintine for 4-6 weeks in as small of a tank I can get away with. (Without hurting fish further). Those fish are then observed and cleaned up before anything else goes on.

I hope this helps my choices in LFS in Alberta are Dad's and Gold's. Although Dad's seems to have few fish in but certainly popular fish.

Cheers,

Garhan

[wandj]

I have purchased a lot of fish (and MEGA supplies) from this particular LFS. One time, I bought a pleco and it did not even survive the night. (And yes, I do know how to acclimatize fish properly)

They have a 3 day guarantee, so I knew I should be covered. And yes, they did let me get a couple of cheaper plecos to replace it, but I was put-off by the ladie's attitude regarding the pleco that died. When I told her, the first thing she said was:

"It was fine in our tanks".

I brushed off the comment and continued to shop there. Not a big deal, but I remember it.

The Discus that died lived about 5 days, so it was not covered.

If I tell her about the Discus, I know I can expect the same response from her again. It may have been suffering in their tanks, but a move is stressful enough to finish it off....in MY tank! (My fault for not noticing the fish was sick, but I am brand new to Discus....I trusted them when they said the fish were great and eating brine shrimp)

I'm not going to waste my breath. What is going to change when I know the same girls have been working there for at least a year and they still can't even tell me what the pH of their tanks are?

They don't need my business.

[ABwildrose]

Well, I still think a well written response from you would be a good idea. If nothing else it will make them aware of the siruation. They will know that there are people out there that value their fish and refuse to put up with that kind of crap.

Plus, if you put it in writing you wouldn't have to actually talk to anyone and have them minimize your concerns or start an argument. I wouldn't hold you breath on a reply or any kind of compensation. But at least they would have been made aware of the situation. There is a slight chance someone will take heed. If they do, it would make it a better place for their fish in future...and for future customers.

best of luck with these other 2 discus, Shelley

[Garhan]

Buying Fish in the Future

Regardless of the speices, there are somethings you should always look at first.

1. Is there any sick fish in the tank- determine this by observation, behavoir pattern, clenched fins, the obvious ich (LOOKS LIKE SALT GRAINS), velvet, worms on skin, pale feces, lifted scales, bulging or protruding marks.

2.Do the fish actively come to your finger if you slowly move it in front of the tank near the surface. -Doesnt apply to some fish-plecos,corys,etc.

3. Request information from the staff at the LFS on water type, mix (R/O and Tap ?) PH, if they cant answer that simple request, ask for a water sample from the tank and pull out your PH kit from your pocket and then let them know. You might even pack your GH/KH kit also.

4. Have they been treated recently in the tank for any diseases, if so what type and what meds where used.

5. What is there feeding cycle and what are they feeding.

There are many more questions you could ask, but these are a few I go through with each purchase. Ask the latin name of the speices to see how interested they personally are on learning there vocation of retail sales. Knowledge in sales is power, thats why PK (Product Knowledge is the best retail tool available to succesful sales in staff) But they need to take the time to learn the facts. Ah an in store test once a week would be benificial. A here I go managing again. Sorry, but I hope this helps you out some.

Garhan

[wandj]

Hiya.

Well, if I turned around and walked out of the store according to rule #1 you mentioned....I would have to because most of their tanks have DEAD fish in them let alone sick ones. That is enough reason alone not to shop there....it really puts me off when I see dead fish laying around the tank...that I know have been there for a long time. Like it being half eaten or a skeleton already (unless they are feeders in a Pirahna tank).

As for asking questions....I already know what I'm going to hear to most of the questions I ask:

It will be "I don't know".

This LFS is not much better than a WalMart for having knowledgeable staff.

And I have seen sick and/or dead fish in most fish stores I've entered. No matter how good a rep they have. But at least some of them have knowledgeable staff (like Big Al's).

I think it will have to be up to me to judge a fishes' health before I buy it. But it's hard to tell sometimes...especially with plecos.