911 Please Help

[vchriste]

Hey, I'm looking for some help with my new betta, Cecil.

We just got him just over a week ago. He's in a cycled 5 gallon tank, all chemistries are within normal limits other than being generally 'hard water', which is usual for here.

Since we've got him, he's eaten a total of 3 pellets (Hikari) in 8 days; I've offered bloodworms, but he just swims past them. He is very lethargic, and just sits in the plants at the bottom of the tank, the only time he moves is when I stick the net in there once a day to see if he's still alive.

In the past couple of days, it looks like his belly is beginning to get bloated, though the scales aren't not 'pineconish'. It also looks like his gills are sticking out of his gill flaps (hard to describe). There's no evidence of external parasite that I can notice, but where he's begninng to bloat around his tummy it's turning white (like overinflated). He's very dull and his fins are 'tucked in'. I've attached a picture, but it doesn't really show what I'm noticing....

I've tried water changes, betta fix...don't know what else to do at the moment....I've never had this much of an issue with a new Betta!

Please help!

[Jayba]

i would run a course of Jungles parasite clear, and at the same time crank up the temp to 80-82 and add salt to take care of ich. And hope for the best.

[vchriste]

Thanks for your relpy!

I've done the salt thing already, just in case. About the Jungles Parasite Clear.....where can you get that? Big Al's? Natures Corner Store? I'm in Edmonton, on the southside and dont' wanna travel too far if I don't have to.

Thanks....look forward to seeing if anyone else has anything to add )

[Jayba]

Did you raise the tempurature? Big als should have it.

[BettaFishMommy]

there is a big debate on whether 'Betta Fix' is actually harmful for bettas. Betta Fix is basically watered down melafix. melafix is not good for bettas due to the oils in it. the oils cause problems with the function of the labyrinth organ and bettas need to be able to breath surface air with this organ. i personally would never use either betta fix or melafix with any betta.

what temperature is the tank at? bettas need their temp in the range of 78 to 80 F. room temperature will make them sluggish and eventually ill.

what are your exact ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings? are you using the dip strip tests or a liquid test (like API freshwater master kit)?

what are you using for dechlorinator? i would highly suggest getting a bottle of Prime if you aren't already using it.

this tank was newly set up when you got the betta? all new filter media and nothing transferred from another mature tank?

i wouldn't medicate right now. the clamped fins and lethargy are telling me that he is stressed from something, most likely the water being too cold for him and perhaps trace amounts of ammonia are there as well. daily 50% water changes with Prime being used is what i would suggest, and keep the feeding light to avoid constipation while he is under the weather. maybe one pellet or two a day if he'll eat them. try soaking the pellets in garlic juice to make them more tasty, and garlic is known to be good for our fish - it causes a chemistry change in the fish's digestive system that creates an inhospitable environment for parasites.

keep us updated!

[vchriste]

Thanks for your help everyone,

I raised the temp to ~80 F and did a 50% water change last time....still no change in his activity.

I use the dip strip test strips (API I believe), and I can't remember off hand the exact readings, but I do recall the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate readings not having a colour change at all.

The tank is cycled, using water from a roommates tank and stole some gravel, but for the most part, the gravel is new and the filter media is new.

BFM- I do agree, I don't really want to use chemicals right now, just in case this is stress, but I've just never had this much of an issue before!! It's so frustrating!

As with Betta Fix, I have heard that before, but I've heard mixed reviews...some people swear by it while others don't use it for the same reason you're suggesting...so I really haven't made a conscious decision yet.

I have some frozen mysis shrimp that I'll try to entice him with at some point here soon.....

I will keep you posted, but please let me know if you think of anything else.

BFM-in case this one goes to the fish bowl in the sky, I have always wanted a half moon....do you know of any place where you can get different breeds of betta's?

Thanks

[BettaFishMommy]

the dip strip tests are a waste of money, IMO, and don't give you a very accurate reading. i would recommend switching to a liquid test kit.

using water from another tank doesn't help matters at all with cycling. the beneficial bacteria live on surfaces and not in the water itself. if the amount of gravel stolen from another tank was minimal then you might as well say everything on your betta's tank is brand new.

i would say that you have ammonia, but your dip strips are not accurate enough to measure it. keep doing those 50% daily water changes.

as for knowing where to get a half moon, sorry, i don't. all my bettas over the past few years have come from either one small pet store or petsmart.

[vchriste]

Ugh......so...

Thought things were going ok yesterday with Cecil...he was a bit more active, not hiding anymore, but still not eating. Fast forward to today...

Came home, turned on the light and omg. So, he's got fin rot now; his dorsal fin is black and it appears that the rest of his fins have tears and holes in them. His body has lost most of it's color and is now brownish/ruddy. His fins look inflammed and red and there's a couple of white spots on his body, however, I've had ich before, and it doesn't look like any ich that I've seen, I'm actually wondering if they're the beginning of some sort of ulceration.

I'm still doing the 50% water changes, added salt, temp up at ~80 F, stopped all chemicals (other than decholorinator etc.). I am at my wits ends now, and I feel so horrible for this poor fish. I am almost certain that we're going to lose him.

So....what to do now?

....thanks again....

[vchriste]

Here's a couple of pictures

[BettaFishMommy]

bring your temp down to at or just under 78 (in case there is a bacterial infection going on), and pick up some Betta Revive. i believe big al's carries it. yep, just checked their site, so they should have it in store too. this stuff will stain all soft materials in your tank blue so be prepared to have silicone, suction cups, etc permanently 'smurfed'.

you will want to dose about 8 t0 10 drops of the Betta Revive per gallon, so you might want to pick up a few packages of the stuff. it's cheap, website says 2.49. this med is an anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, and anti-protozoan. i have used it many times with great success and still have a package in my fish bin at all times.

before you dose the Revive, do a 100% water change to get all the salt out of the water. i've never combined Revive with salt so i don't know if there would be any adverse effects/reactions. wouldn't want to chance it. and you will want to be doing daily 100% changes with using this med, to have it be most effective.

if you don't want to take the chance on staining your nice expensive fluval tank there, i could lend you either a 1 or a 1.5 gallon bowl that i don't care about staining. with the daily 100% changes you can get away without using a filter while you are treating him. both of these bowls have lids, just to be on the safe side.

let me know. i'm in the north-east corner of millwoods. you'd have to come pick it up, i don't drive.

Edited December 16, 2010 by BettaFishMommy

[EowynJane]

Regarding his stomach problems and not eating... have you tried feeding him peas? Cook a frozen pea and cut it up into really small pieces, offer these to him one piece at a time. He may not realize it's food at first so keep trying if he doesn't eat them at first. Fish out the peas that hit the bottom of the tank, they foul up the water fast. This will help greatly if he's constipated.

Edited December 16, 2010 by EowynJane

[BettaFishMommy]

from the photos he doesn't look constipated to me, but peas can't hurt. soak them in a bit of garlic juice to entice him to eat.

[EowynJane]

True, she mentioned he was a bit bloated. It was the only piece of advice I could think of to offer on top of everything else!

[vchriste]

Hi guys,

thanks again for all the help. I've been medicating him with the Betta Revive, today is day 3. I honestly thought that yesterday he was looking a bit better, however, on closer inspection today, I see that his anal fin is more chewed up and he is completely missing his pectoral fins. He can't swim all that well. He is also going up to the top for air quite a bit, which I can't really understand why. I got my water tested, it's fine, plus I'm doing 100% water changes and adding Prime.

My day job is as an Animal Health Technologist, and naturally, I really can't stand seeing animals in pain and suffering, and I believe that with all I've tried with Cecil, I can't really do any more and he's suffering at this point. I've never had to do this......is there a humane way to euthanize a fish? I learned in school that you can use Alka Seltzer, and that freezing is considered inhumane....any tips?

Thanks again everyone.

[BettaFishMommy]

i'm sorry to hear he's not improving!

sometimes there's only so much we can do, unfortunately.

when i need to euthanize a small fish i take a tupperware container, fill it about 1/2 full of water, and put the container in the freezer until a good ice crust forms. punch a hole in the ice crust with your finger and then net the fish out of his tank and drop him in the hole in the ice. put lid on container and put it back in the freezer.

i know the above sounds horribly cruel but it is faster than putting the fish in water and then putting it in the freezer. when i've had to euthanize fish this way, they usually go within a minute or two, and without thrasing around at all.

you can also pick up clove oil (also called eugenol? i think). tooth-ache remedy. i'm sorry but i don't know the required number of drops to effectively euthanize a fish. hopefully somebody will chime in with that information.

Edited December 20, 2010 by BettaFishMommy