herpetology! Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Hey! I have a 33 gallon with 3 adult paddletail newts. I have experimented with various animals to keep with them and am looking for some advice on others to add. I currently don't heat the water so it's at about 20C give or take. Here is what it is stocked with: 3 paddletail newts 1 ghost shrimp 1 tiger barb 1 black shark 3-4 feeder guppies that won't die. Now, I've had success with flower shrimp but they croweded the bottom and the tiger barb dispatched them during sheds. The tiger barb also chased down 2 other tiger barbs to exhaustion, allowing the newts to finish them off. The black shark is only aggressive towards the tiger barb. I have had some limited success with dwarf mexican crayfish, but they get torn apart during shed. Other than this and the odd newt battle, things are relatively peaceful. Goldfish are out of the question as the newts rip them apart, they are a favorite food apparently. I'm mainly looking for fish to flesh out the upper echelons of the tank- so top dwellers or at least middle dwellers. I want things to stay off the bottom in my tank that is dominated by bottom dwellers. They need to be durable (no heater), fast and able to deal with aggression. They need to be of the dimensions that a paddletail couldn't snipe them, so about 3 times the size of an adult guppy. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks! Edited November 1, 2011 by herpetology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 You can try hatchets, but really, paddletails will get nice and big and eat pretty much any fish you put in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpetology! Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Like I said, they have been fine with the one barb and the black shark. They also tend to not eat guppies very rapidly. They also don't hunt near the surface. Can you tell me more about hatchets? The tiger I have is insanely aggressive, he even challenges the newts sometimes. Anything that swims would have to deal with him- the guppies that are alive strangely have gone ignored for months. Is there any reason to believe that some more attractive guppies may work as well? (I lost about 15/20 of the guppies I fed) Edited November 1, 2011 by herpetology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 They're strictly surface fish. There are 3 types commonly available - I'd probably try at least 6 Silvers, they're the biggest and do best in a school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpetology! Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) Do you think that it might be overstocking my tank, given what I have, to have 6 hatchets? I only fill it 5/6 of the way full. I can fill it more quite easily, though, it's just for the newts and they are all so comfy they don't go on the land...ever. Will the hatchets be alright in 20 degrees? How often do they need to eat? This is a tank kind of mimicking the low resource streams where the newts come from, but I am down with feeding floating food to fish. Sorry I know the rule is "1 inch per gallon" roughly dependent on type of fish. I don't know how much the newts count for this, because they only eat once every 3-4 days and really that is a treat for low nutrient streams. They are all fat enough that their costal grooves are kinda disappearing. Also, for a surface fish, I do have a floating island that takes up about 1/5 of the surface. They may use it for cover, which is good, but my filter is also located in the middle of the tank. Should I move it to the side with these guys, or do they care? Edit: Sorry for asking these strange questions. The tank is an experiment and I am pushing myself to see how I can manage, I have a decade of experience with reptiles and amphibians with some scattered decent experience in fish. Also, I have tried two species of snail to help with algae- trapdoors get so big that they almost killed one of my newts by clamping on their face. Mystery snails tend to just clamp up and die. I've tried zebra and tiretrack but they died very fast. ALSO! I am trying to add some ghost shrimp. How many is appropriate for a 33 gallon? They have a good survival rate (other than one being sniped first night, this one has lasted a year and I only bought 2) and I really like them. The newts only tend to eat sick and dying shrimp, at least ones this big. I was thinking 4 ghost shrimp total, so adding three. What do you think about this? How do shrimp effect the carrying capacity of the tank? Edited November 1, 2011 by herpetology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 IMO, the 1"/gal rule was created by the manufacturers of filters, who say a certain filter is good for a certain sized tank. IMO, those ratings are about 1/2 right - they're good for about 1/2 the size tank they're rated for. That being said, if you want more bioload, add more filtration. As long as the inhabitants have the space they need to feel safe, the 1"/gal rule can be exceeded by a long shot! I once had over 130 fish in my 120gal and all were over the 2" mark . If you aren't heating your tank, then the hatchets aren't a great choice. There are quite a few cool-water killies, but they're typically harder to find. I know there are a few killi breeders in the clubs, so maybe ask around at the next meeting. As for the shrimp, they're cheap and don't really add much to the bioload, so I'd say start w 10 and see how they fare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BettaFishMommy Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 your tiger barb is being aggressive because he's all by himself. barbs are a fish that enjoy being with others of their own kind, and having a good number of them will decrease aggression towards other fish in the tank. i wouldn't add more barbs though. they like the water warmer than 20. did a bit of reading on these newts just now, and it seems the guideline is 5 to 10 gallons minimum for each newt. i'd say that tank should be a newt only tank, due to its size and the adult size of each newt (6 to 7 inches). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted November 1, 2011 Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 your tiger barb is being aggressive because he's all by himself. barbs are a fish that enjoy being with others of their own kind, and having a good number of them will decrease aggression towards other fish in the tank. i wouldn't add more barbs though. they like the water warmer than 20. did a bit of reading on these newts just now, and it seems the guideline is 5 to 10 gallons minimum for each newt. i'd say that tank should be a newt only tank, due to its size and the adult size of each newt (6 to 7 inches). +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpetology! Posted November 1, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2011 (edited) I added more tiger barbs and the one I had chased the others to exhaustion and the newts picked them off. For some reason this barb is meaner than any other I've seen. Basically the newts themselves don't come off the bottom at all except to get gulps of air. The black shark has thrived in this tank, as has my ghost shrimp, flower shrimp in the past and even the one tiger barb. The paddletails are actually max size right now, so I'm well aware of their overall bulk. From my experience, Cyprinids tend to do well in these kinds of tanks. Is there a species that prefers to stay off the bottom? I have had everything from jewel cichlids to Rainbows suggested. I'm trying to be careful at which species I add, as there is definite room near the upper water column. Thanks for your comments guys, I do appreciate it. Edited November 1, 2011 by herpetology! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpetology! Posted November 3, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 Sorry for the double post, but it would be nice to chat about this some more. I'm not sold on adding more fish, I just want to know what my limited options may be. Can someone suggest a specific type of Killi, for example, that doesn't mind slightly cooler temperatures? I'm really just theory-tanking, I find it's an interesting topic. Please grace me with your wisdom!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprucegruve Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 what if you tried to add some african dwarf frogs instead of fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted November 3, 2011 Report Share Posted November 3, 2011 IMO, the frogs would be snacks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herpetology! Posted November 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 Yeah, the frogs like it on the bottom and they wouldn't last long at all. I bought 10 small ghost shrimp who will be beefed up before going in. I also got an American Flag Fish, as they were insistent it could handle the 20-21C of this tank. So far, the black shark doesn't seem to care about him but the newts do. Once he's done stressing, he'll get off the bottom I'm sure. I moved my two anacaris, which are as tall as the water column and bushy, to the same corner. He seems to like hiding in them and they certainly impede newt movement, at least for a strike, so things are going well! My tiger barb is out of the tank at the moment, though, I wanted the flag fishy to get acclimatized and hopefully the barb will be less of a jerk when I put him back in a few days. I'm not holding out much hope, though he does seem to get along rather well with the pond goldfish. They are too big to care about him and he is too little to try anything stupid, so they just co exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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