Jayba Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Sorry if I come across as lecturing, but .25 ammonia is not a Zero, a zero means null or none, maybe my fish do well because of this attention to details, who knows. But having fish worth what some of mine are worth, it's important. My days of learning by killing tetras and gourami's has passed. Thought some of my experiences could have helped you a bit. But one thing I have learned it that the stress caused ammonia burning (at any level of ammonia) can cause stress and kill fish, especially under certain scenerios. But who knows. These numbers have significance, therefore I ask. But sorry, I forgot, it's bacterial, lol. Maybe I shall do what all the other smart, older, experienced, learned fish keepers and sponsors have done, and not help anyone out on the forum, just show up to sell and buy stuff and sign in anonymously. Best of luck buddy. Let us know how it all plays out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 jeremoose I must be the luckiest guy in the world then with my stock and even luckier to still be alive from drinking tap water with all the bacteria in my intestinal tract dying by the millions with evey sip with that logic lol... sorry bro we'll hafta agree to disagree on that one (A useless little tidbit for you) Alberta is actually the chrones, IBS and collitus capitol of the world, hehe. If you treat your water with prime, it breaks the ammonia chlorine bond that makes it stable. . I fill my filters with floss, and wash and squeeze them until clean. But I wouldn't think about doing this to water straight out of the tap to the whole filter contents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcgd Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Okay OP. You say you have a 55 gallon. You cleared out those 17 fish how long before you got your first rainbows? Over what period did you stock up to what number of rainbows? A quarantine should take about 1.5- 2 months before you add those fish to your tank. After that amount of time the new fish will have regained their immune system strength (bad wording) and likely shown any diseases/ parasites they have been carrying. Moving fish is stressful and can knock down the immune system of said fish and bring can bring issues to the surface. There are many things in a normal healthy tank that can plague a fish. Normally this is not an issue as the fish are all strong and healthy. Ich is a perfect example. Cysts are found in water everywhere, including our tank. But it doesn't show it's face until a fish has a weakened immune system. Clown loaches are notorious for this. Add on top that you may have transferred out fish and waited a few days or weeks before restocking and your bio load may have been pretty heavy for that tank. The bacteria doesn't take long to die back without food, ammonia. And yes, rinsing out the media under the tap could do damage to the biological filter. So can having a filter turned off for more than 30min+ as well as other things. On top of that, unless you are heavily planted the tank was probably overstocked at the end there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euripides Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Sorry if I come across as lecturing, but .25 ammonia is not a Zero, a zero means null or none, maybe my fish do well because of this attention to details, who knows. But having fish worth what some of mine are worth, it's important. My days of learning by killing tetras and gourami's has passed. Thought some of my experiences could have helped you a bit. But one thing I have learned it that the stress caused ammonia burning (at any level of ammonia) can cause stress and kill fish, especially under certain scenerios. But who knows. These numbers have significance, therefore I ask. But sorry, I forgot, it's bacterial, lol. Maybe I shall do what all the other smart, older, experienced, learned fish keepers and sponsors have done, and not help anyone out on the forum, just show up to sell and buy stuff and sign in anonymously. Best of luck buddy. Let us know how it all plays out. Sorry if I come across as lecturing, but .25 ammonia is not a Zero, a zero means null or none, maybe my fish do well because of this attention to details, who knows. But having fish worth what some of mine are worth, it's important. My days of learning by killing tetras and gourami's has passed. Thought some of my experiences could have helped you a bit. But one thing I have learned it that the stress caused ammonia burning (at any level of ammonia) can cause stress and kill fish, especially under certain scenerios. But who knows. These numbers have significance, therefore I ask. But sorry, I forgot, it's bacterial, lol. Maybe I shall do what all the other smart, older, experienced, learned fish keepers and sponsors have done, and not help anyone out on the forum, just show up to sell and buy stuff and sign in anonymously. Best of luck buddy. Let us know how it all plays out. Dont get me wrong I for sure welcome help from people that have many years of experience with raising fish, and maintaining healthy fish. Looking out of the box, you sure came on sounding I have no idea of what I'm doing, I may be new compared to you, but I have a conscience too, and having dead fish is serious to me, not just oh well I can buy more. I'm getting help from Rick as we speak, not once did he belittle me. I came to this forum to get help from knowledgeable people like you Jayba, just wasn't expected to be treated like a child that's all. Yes my ammonia isn't at zero but I believe it's more than that to be killing off my bows. Im not the type to take advantage of knowledgeable people, and not listen to advice. It;s how I get talked to and that I take offense to . But I do appreciate your help and everyone else that has responded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euripides Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 Okay OP. You say you have a 55 gallon. You cleared out those 17 fish how long before you got your first rainbows? Over what period did you stock up to what number of rainbows? A quarantine should take about 1.5- 2 months before you add those fish to your tank. After that amount of time the new fish will have regained their immune system strength (bad wording) and likely shown any diseases/ parasites they have been carrying. Moving fish is stressful and can knock down the immune system of said fish and bring can bring issues to the surface. There are many things in a normal healthy tank that can plague a fish. Normally this is not an issue as the fish are all strong and healthy. Ich is a perfect example. Cysts are found in water everywhere, including our tank. But it doesn't show it's face until a fish has a weakened immune system. Clown loaches are notorious for this. Add on top that you may have transferred out fish and waited a few days or weeks before restocking and your bio load may have been pretty heavy for that tank. The bacteria doesn't take long to die back without food, ammonia. And yes, rinsing out the media under the tap could do damage to the biological filter. So can having a filter turned off for more than 30min+ as well as other things. On top of that, unless you are heavily planted the tank was probably overstocked at the end there. I would say about a week then I added 5 dwarf neons that I bought from another member, and I picked up 3 more from AC, after that it would be about 2-3 days then I got 2 pairs of rainbows.Then the deaths started to happen, as far as my tank, it is heavily planted, pretty much a jungle in there. As far as quarantining them, I am aware of the period that you are suppose to ideally quarantine them, I just never had that issue and no deaths, so I just continued on, and I know of many people that do the same of not waiting the recommended period of time with no casualties. different results happen for everyone I guess., and if the deaths of my bows resulted because of that then I got bit in the arse big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 If your tank is heavily planted, there should be 0 ammonia; and quite possibly 0 nitrate unless you are dosing (up to 20ppm is fine). How are you dosing Carbon - CO2 or Excel/Metricide? My experience w CO2 and dwarf neon rainbows isn't that great; and a recent thread on Metricide 28 confirms that it isn't safe for fish, while Metricide 14 is what's needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euripides Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I was dosing excel as well as using CO2. I ran out of excel a few weeks ago. but one thing I do is feed on the high side, trying to make sure all the bottom dwellers have food. I've also put the seachem fert pills in the substrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted May 1, 2012 Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 I had about 20 Dwarf Neons in my big planted tank with CO2 and fert dosing - they were the only fish I had that slowly died off. When they got down to 10 or so, I moved them to a different tank w/o CO2 and they started spawning. Right now, I have them in a tank w lots of moss and hornwort, but no CO2, and they spawn regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euripides Posted May 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2012 What about dry ferts, would that be an issue to the rainbows? I know majority of the plants in my tank have been growing quite well without Co2, there's enough fish waste for nutrients for the plants, and Im running T5 Ho lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeanie1978 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Um just throwing this out here but it sounds to me like Costia. the slimy white coating is something I had before with some seriously stressed rescue fish. Not to say you've stressed your fish but they are delicate little beauties. Try this site to see if it this is similar. Good Luck http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/disease/costia.php What it doesn't mention is the tank clean up needed for it. You have to rinse the substrate if you can and boil if not to replace and do multiple water changes at least 30-40% per week. Wiping down the tank sides and rinsing your filter as well. Good idea on treating the rinsed media with prime, every bit helps our little buddies. Good luck if it is this cause it's a pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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