DougAdel Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 My Bolivian Ram was one of my first fish when I started this hobby last summer. She lived happily and accepted all sinking fish food (NLS pellets, blood worms, brine shrimp etc.). She was in a 30g tank for several weeks when we upped our stock to include an Angelfish sometime last summer. The two never really crossed paths for months and lived in harmony and Olivia (the ram) ate plentiful. Then the chases started... Olivia held her own and would chase off the much larger Angelfish, but her appetite started dwindling and I noticed she was eating less and less. This kept on through several months. Last November the Angel started showing signs of stress and less eating and I eventually diagnosed it as Cammalanus worms. I did the levimasole treatment and the red threads protruding from the Angel's rectum disappeared. There were never any signs of the parasite in the Olivia. After the levimasole treatment Olivia appeared to stop eating entirely and the chases with the Angel had increased as the Angel seemed to get stronger after the parasites were resolved. I received a 20g tank from the lovey Jayba in mid December that was originally going to be held to the side as a quarantine tank. With Olivia not eating and the Angel showing more aggression I decided it would be best to set up a new tank that would revolve around Olivia. The tank cycled in about a month and mid January it was ready. The new 20g has a sand substrate 6 black phantom tetras, 6 peppered cories and my beloved Olivia. After the initial stress of moving over I thought I was going to lose her she was so stressed for a few days, but after the introduction of the new fish she went back to her normal self sans Angel aggression. I thought with the more peaceful tank and sand substrate she would go back to her original self and eat more, but I have yet to see her eat ANYTHING. I've caught her sift the sand once or twice, but she immediately spits out anything. She isn't getting smaller so she must be foraging somewhere, but she is the only fish I own that doesn't lose her mind when it's feeding time. In her life Olivia has never seen more than .25 ammonia (that was at the very beginning when the first tank went through a mini cycle when I introduced too many fish too fast), 0 nitrite and no more than about 20 nitrate. I am very diligent about water changes and tank maintenance. She's never been super bright or colorful (almost always a bland grey color), but I always assumed this was because she was a single ram and no one to mate with. She is completely ignoring the blood worms I poured in for her as per usual. I guess my question is should I be worried? is there anything I can do to increase her appetite? During the cammalanus incident I tried garlic, but to no avail. Sorry for the super long post, but I find the more background information the better for these types of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGuppyGirl Posted February 3, 2013 Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 Just to be clear, you treated Olivia as well for the worms too? Is the tank planted? Are there caves for her to claim? Is the tank very brightly lit? I have found the rams I have kept preferred a dimmer lighting, and lots of hide outs to be happy, maybe she is lonely? I have only kept them as pairs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2013 I treated the entire tank with the levimasole. The tank is well planted although most of the leaves from the plants have fallen off because of the stress of replanting, but they're on their way back. I had a little planter for her to hide in, but she never went in. This was the case in both tanks. Unfortunately the lighting is a little high at the moment. When I first set up the new tank the vals were so tall they were draping over the surface of the water providing some shady spots, but I had to cut them back as they were a haven for brown diatoms. I have often thought about getting another Bolivian to keep her company. Sexing them is kind of hard and I'm not sure my tank is big enough for a mated pair that may get a little territorial. Do you think moving the tetras over to the other tank and getting Olivia another Bolivian to associate with would help? Would two females improve her eating habits or would they just ignore each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGuppyGirl Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 With mine I had kept a trio of 2 males with 1 female in a 75G, with tons of teras, platies and mollies without issue. I had bought them as juvies and thought I had picked the proper trio and goofed. The most aggression I had seen was some chasing but no fin nipping. I would say I found females more aggressive than males, and would suggest getting a male. If you try this just havevto watch after adding and worse case can add the tetras to your other tank. Try watching the tank at the store and pick the most amiable docile male, and before adding him jumble up the tank to make it seem like a new tank with a few more hidey holes for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayba Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 If I were to venture a guess, two things come to mind immediately: If you have an angel that was showing callamunus worms, your tank would have 100's or even 1000's of eggs in it. Treatment with Levamisole merely paralyzes the adult worms and allows them to be passed by the fish. Other fish injest the worms while grazing and it starts all over again. You need to treat a tank repeatidlly and vacuume like crazy. A planted tank would have it's challenges. I am going to take a guess at which store sold you the angel, as I have been contacted and sold tons of Levamisole to these people, heard dozens say that they got these worms from this store. Funny how they now will sell you the meds to treat them.....but that's another topic. The other thing that comes to mind is possibly protozoa, nematodes or intestinal infection causing irratation to the digestive tract making her not want to eat. Who knows now. I would treat her with Flubendazole. It is useful for controlling intestinal parasites including worms. Flubendazole is active through adsorption into the fish’s skin and gills. The drug does not have to be eaten to be effective. This makes the drug useful for treating fishes which have quit eating due to irritation from infection of the throat and gut. Send me a PM with your name and address and I will send you some. Most people sex Bolivian rams wrong, the males have a dainty little chin and the females are the more robust looking fish with a bigger rounder chin and bigger face. A buddy may help, but don't buy it from the same store the angel came from. If you can, get it from a local breeder if you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 Thanks for all the advice guys! As much as I would love another ram I think the tanks are carrying as much bioload as they can. I'll try the Flubendazole and if that doesn't change her tune I'll try another round of levimasole treatments. If these treatments don't work out I'll look in to rehoming some fish and finding her a mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beautylovetruth Posted February 4, 2013 Report Share Posted February 4, 2013 I hope it all works out for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 Update. A closer look at the Bolivian and she appeared to have a sunken stomach. After talking to someone at the LFS he recommended parasite guard fizzing tabs as he said they did not need to be ingested for them to help. I removed the carbon filter and did the treatment as the box suggested (2 tabs for the 20 gal tank wait two days do a large water change and then 2 more tabs). Still haven't noticed any improvement. Everyone else in the tank is as hungry as ever, but Olivia just doesn't seem to have any interest in feeding time. Any other suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGuppyGirl Posted February 15, 2013 Report Share Posted February 15, 2013 I found the fizzing tabs to be mostly just salt, thinking you should find some flubendazole, hit jayba up for some. I had read several articles recommending its use even for calamanus worms, as it is easier on the fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 17, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2013 Yeah, I had just taken the advice from the guy I wish I had done a little more research though. No ill effects, but I think I just watched $6 fizz away in to the tank. I messaged Jayba about it, but he never got back to me. I figure he's busy or something and I don't want to pester him or be a nuisance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Well what I had thought to be a sunken stomach seems to have gone away. She just must not want me to see her eat. She's currently frolicking with the cories... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 I'm getting to the end of my rope with this tank... I have no idea what's wrong. A couple days ago I came home from work and the ram was showing very stressful colours and the peppered cories were almost black. I checked the water parameters and everything was coming up 0. I did a 30% water change anyways. I got the flubendazole in the mail on Thursday and treated the tank. Olivia's colours have gotten better, but she still isn't eating and the cories are very inactive and not eating either. The black phantoms seem normal. Could the overactive cories have been stressing Olivia out? Now that they're docile she seems better. What could be happening with the cories? They were healthy and happy a few days ago and now this. Their barbels are still healthy looking and the water conditions are perfect (aside from the flubendazole, but I added that after the cories started showing signs of illness and thought it could help...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGuppyGirl Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 Corys are sensitive to most medications. I keep corys with everything, and never had a problem with them mixed with Bolivians or GBR. What color is your substrate BTW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougAdel Posted February 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 The substrate is black sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperGuppyGirl Posted February 24, 2013 Report Share Posted February 24, 2013 In my obsession with these little guys I have read quite a few postings on other forums about some corys changing color to better blend in with their surroundings. Even my peppered have done so, becoming more silver/dark grey spot on an orange body color on a play sand substrate rather than a black/ dark grey spot on a white silver body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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