Like To Start.

[flash_oesc]

There are saltwater shrimp. I have fresh water. I have red rili and bule rili (he called them panaques?).

[Labman]

No, he didn't really call them anything, actually, he wasn't really helpful at all.

He had those white with the red collar and a blueish ones.

Forgot to add, had my water tested at Petsmart, Ammonia=0, Nitrite= 0.5, Nitrate=20, P.H= +9.0, Phosphate= 2500,Alkalinity= 300, and Clorine is 0, because I have my own well.

I knew my water was soft, can't cook pasta or potato's, but, I didn'y realize it was that far off!

Edited June 4, 2014 by Labman

[flash_oesc]

I'm not a chemist - so I won't way in on any of that, other than the nitrite being a little high considering...

I find a petstore job is to sell you stuff, a forums job is to help keep what you bought alive

[Labman]

3 hours after adding the P.H. down, MY test, which was too high to measure with my kit this morning, is now down to 8.7.

[jumpsmasher]

Hi Labman,

I will just post here instead of replying to your PM as I am sure others can also help you out. I will try to cut it down to the basics and try not to overload you with information

If you want to get started with freshwater dwarf shrimps there are a couple of things you should know:

1. Know your shrimps
Just as with fish there are many different species of freshwater dwarf but the main two genus as far as the hobby is concern are as follows:

• Neocaridina
  • Neocaridina davidi (formerly Neocaridina heteropoda) - include the common Red Cherry Shrimp and its various grades / color morphs (Sakura, Fire Red, Painted Fire Red, Yellow, Orange, Pumpkin, ​Blue Velvet, Chocolate, Carbon, Black Sakura, Rilli-types, Blue Diamond, Dream Blue, Bloody Mary etc;)
  • Neocaridina Zhangjiajiensis - The less common Snowball and Blue Pearl shrimps
  • Various wild types
• Caridina
  • ​Caridina Cantonensis - aka Bee shrimps, includes the Crystal Red Shrimps (Red Bee Shrimp), Crystal Black Shrimps, the various type of Tiger Shrimps, Taiwan Bee Shrimps (Black King Kong, Panda, Red Wine)
  • Caridina Babaulti - commonly sold as Green shrimps or Green Babaulti shrimps
  • Sulawesi Shrimps - many different and very colourful shrimps from Indonesia - includes species such as the Cardinal, Harlequin and Malaya Shrimps
  • Various wild types - include the ninja, blue bee, bumblebee, etc;

There are also other shrimps you can get at your LFS like the Amano (aka Aglae eating) and bamboo shrimps but they are not really what i would call dwarf shrimps

Plant Inverts has a nice section with the various shrimp species in the hobby:

http://www.planetinverts.com/shrimp_species.html

But if you are starting out the main ones you want to focus on are the Neocardina (or just "Neo's" for short), specifically the Red Cherry Shrimps. They would be the easiest and most readily available as well as the least expensive. As for parameters most people keep Red cherry shrimps just fine using regular tap water.

They should be able to tolerate a wide range of parameters as long as they are acclimatized properly like fish and there isn't any big fluctuations in your parameters.

But If want some numbers I would say the following

Temp: 18-28

pH: 6.8 - 8
won't worry too much about gH / kH or TDS as long as they are not super high

You should be able to pick up some cherries from the LFS or from fellow AA members here for aorund $2-3 or less per shrimp. I would start with them before trying anything else. from this point forward I will assume you are going to start with them (and you really shouldn't really try anything else until you get your feet wet with them)

2. Know your water

Before I go further I have to mention that I am a big believer in RO/DI and only use RO/DI for all my shrimps but that being said Red cherry shrimps should be fine with tap water. You just have to watch out for the odd ammonia spike and of course dechlorinate the water.

BUT since you are using well water, you will have know what is in your water. My experience with well water is quite limited but seen both end of the spectrum - I would get your well water from the tap tested (i.e before it goes into the tank) and not just the standard aquarium tests as shrimps for very susceptible to things like heavy metals and copper and well as certain chemicals such as those used in insecticides / pesticides that might be leeching into your water. At a glance, if those numbers you quote above are similar to the ones from the tap I would say your PH is relatively high, nitrite / nitrate should be zero from the tap and Phosphate seems high if those are ppm numbers. If your numbers from the tap is very different from the above than I would be a bit concern what is causing those numbers inside the tank.

I would also avoid messing around with the PH by using commercial additives. The only thing I would add the the well water is a dechlorinator - not so much for the chlorine but to neutralize any heavy metals - and I would avoid using Seachem Prime - great for fish but I heard some horror stories with shrimps.

As for the tank setup, I generally avoid anything that would buffer the PH (i.e gravel, rcoks) but with Cherries it shouldn't really matter much. A basic setup would be something like a 10 gallon tank with inert gravel or sand and either a sponge filter or a HOB filter with a foam over the intake. While they can withstand a wide range of temperatures, avoid fluctuation throughout the day. i.e take temperature readings during various times of the day, with and without the lights on.

Feeding - shrimps don't need a lot of food as they are natural scavengers. For around 10 shrimps or so i usually feed a piece of food no larger than 2-3mm square, once a day. If they don;t eat all the food I remove any leftover food after a few hours.

I am also assuming the tank has been properly cycled or been have been set up for a while. If that is the case my advice I would try some Red Cherry shrimps and see how they do with the well water without you adjusting the pH and such. From the price you said you paid for your shrimps in your pm, it didn't sound like they were regular cherry shrimps.

If they are still dying off and all signs point to the well water being the issue you can try experimenting with RO water from the supermarket first (if you have a small tank) or eventually looking at investing in a RO/DI filter for your well water (~$150)

Hope this helps,

Edited June 26, 2014 by jumpsmasher

[Labman]

Thank-you jumpsmasher, very informative!

My well is tested every May, but the test usually only covers Bacteria, e.g. E-coli. It was shocked 2 weeks ago, 5 gallons of Chlorine and 900 gallons of Edmonton tap water. the bacteria, wasn't high, but there was algae appearing in the toilet tanks. There is very little iron in it.

The PH, right out of the tap is normally +9 and the water is incredibly soft. A bottle of Shampoo or dish detergent, last for months. LOL

I have set up 2 x 10 gallon tanks for Shrimp, #1 is the oldest, about 3 weeks, it has 2 sponge filters and Horn wort, it was started with 15 baby platties and 12 of the Smallest feeder gold fish. Most of the fish, have survived, but the Horn Wort has perished!

Tank #2 has the Matten filter, but it also had a Aqua "Mini" on it for 2 weeks, before I added 2 of the large feeder G.F., I will continue with the HOB, until I have Shrimp in it, it also has Christmas Moss in it.

Both were started with the Seachem "Alpha", which is supposed to be a more concentrated version of "Prime". As well as doses of Nutrafin "Cycle".

@05:45 today:

Tank #1;

P.H. = 7.6, N02 = 0.1, NH3 = 0.6, GH and KH off the chart.

Tank #2;

P.H. =7.2, N02 = 0.0, NH3 =0.1, GH and KH off the chart.

Test done with a Hagen Master kit, some of the agents may be out dated, the GH and KH test were stopped after 30 drops had been introduced.

I will take samples in to my LFS, for them to test against my findings.

Thank-you again.

[jumpsmasher]

The PH, right out of the tap is normally +9 and the water is incredibly soft.

hmm if the gH and kH is off the chart, than that would indicate that it is your water in your tank is very hard - gH & kH should be very low if you have soft water. have you tried testing the gH and kH of the well water? So you know that the TDS is like for both the well and tank water?

If the Phosphate levels are high in the well water that could also cause the algae you see in your toilet as well. I am not too familiar with phosphate as it not something i test from since i use RO water but a quick search seems to indicate the ideal range should be around 1/10 of your Nitrates so if the numbers you previously quoted are ppm - 40ppm nitrates & 2500ppm phosphate, than your phosphate levels are very high.Of course, they might not have any affect on the health of the shrimps but seems fairly high.

Do you know what the shrimps you got we called? If they lasted less than a day in your tank, I am guessing either

1) They are were sensitive and were already were not in great shape from the trip

2) they did not acclimatized well to your tank or the parameters between the water they were in and the your tank vary greatly - i.e who were they introduced to the tank

3) something in the tank killed them

I would do a partial water change and quit using any additives to bring down the ph or alter any of the parameters. Try using a standard dechlorinator like the hagen / Nutrafin one (i,e not Prime or related products) and continue dosing with Cycle. Maybe put some carbon in your filter to help remove any pollinates. Let it run for a couple more weeks until your tank is cycled and try adding some Red cherry shrimps and see how they do.

[Labman]

After 30 drops of KH test medium, I quit trying to get the water to change from the blue color. The GH, took 26 drops to turn Lemon/Green, I know that the well is high SODIUM, which is probably why the GH KH test so high. You can't cook pasta or potato's with it, turns them to mush.

I was looking for the receipt, but they were a light Blue, very pretty and about an inch+ long.

Both tanks have had a 50% water change last Sunday, but, it was with my well water. I use "Water Warehouse" water for all the drinking and cooking here, it is just Edmonton city water, that is filtered and maybe it is R.O'd. I need to get house water today, so I will ask, if it is, I will do another 50% water change with it. I pick up 70 gallons at a time.

I use the Wardley "Complete Conditioner", and a product that was made by Rx, "One Drop Superchlor". for the water buy.

I did the 60 minute float, introduced tank water about every ten minutes, when released, they went to the bottom and were never seen again! That was Tank #1, the Shrimp, were larger than the fish in there.

I will be netting all the fish out of # 1 today, the N02 and NH3 are respectable, I will continue to feed the bacteria over the next while also. I have quite a bit of Cycle on hand. Plus some of the "Quik Start.

Mark

[jumpsmasher]

From the sound of it they might be Blue Velvet Shrimps

http://www.shrimpfever.com/shop/livestock-shrimp/blue-velvet-shrimp/

I can't say if there are things in your well water that would kill them as I am no expert when it comes to water quality but i always say my shrimps gets better quality water than I do.. lol

It also important to point out that when we say Red Cherry Shrimps are very hardy shrimps it is all relative and most people are using tap water from the city which I imagine would have undergone more treatment and filtration than your well water. In general shrimps are still quite sensitive to certain contaminants in the water, more so than fish.

Test the pH, gH, kH and TDS of the water you get. If those number are close to zero (particularly gH) you might need to re-mineralize the water unless you are mixing it with your well water.

If you had some baby platties and small goldfish with the shrimps in tank no.1 that there is also a good chance they might have eaten them. Size doesn't really matter with it comes to shrimps and fish - even if they can'f fit them in their mouths, they would torment them until the shrimp eventually get weak and then they would start to pick them apart.

When you get the next batch of shrimps it might be advisable to do a drip acclimatization with them. put the shrimps and the water they came in a container and use a airline hose to slowly drip the tank water into the container over the course of a couple hours. You can control the flow of the water by either tying the airline in a knot or using a control valve.

http://www.shrimptank.ca/acclimatization/

One last note, if you are already bringing water in for drinking and cooking, you probably want to look at getting RO DI unit. Of course I am not sure if how that would work with well water; you would probably have to get a booster pump and well as additional add-ons and what not

Edited June 27, 2014 by jumpsmasher

[Labman]

So, today I had my tank water retested at LFS, as expected, the P.H. (9.2) and Phosphates (2400) were off the chart!

I checked with my Water Warehouse guy, it is Edmonton water, but it is d-chlorinated,filtered and runs through an R.O. cycle.

Got home, netted what I could for fish from #1 tank and did a 85% water changed, Tank #2 got about a 90% change, as per another couple of suggestions, I added 5ml of API Amazon Extract to each tank.

I also added a Marimo Ball to each tank. They have them for $9.95 at S.P. Petsmart.

The Amazon extract was on sale also, $3,97 for 8 oz., I picked up 3 of them.

I'll retest tomorrow, then as you have suggested, add Cycle, depending on the numbers.

[Labman]

Test results for the last 2 days, are very good!

Tank #1 NH3/NH4 = less than 0.01, No3 = 0, No2 = 0, GH = 0-25ppm, KH = between 120 - 180ppm. PH = 7.6

Tank #2 NH3/NH4 - 0.0, NO3 = 0, No2 = 0, GH = 75ppm, KH = between 120 - 180ppm, PH = 7.6

Tank #1 had more of the well water left in it when I changed over to the R.O. water, that's the only explanation for the lower GH #.

I believe, that the tanks are ready for Shrimp, in another couple of days at least. Adding Cycle again today, take more readings tomorrow.