dinner conversation, anyone?

[dunl]

How about this method for acclimatizing fish......

(1) Set the boxes of newly arrived fishes on the floor in front of the tanks into which the fishes are to be placed.

(2) Open all boxes and inspect them for punctured and deflated bags; if any are found these must be dealt with first (a sort of triage).

(3) Fishes from bags with no water in them must be placed into their new tanks as soon as possible (even fishes which appear to be on death's door will often revive). Since there is no water in the bags simply squirt the NovAqua and AmQuel into the new tank and place the fishes into the treated tank.

(4) Open the remaining bags, roll down the tops, if possible, to form a sort of cuff and leave them standing in their boxes. For smaller bags a helping hand is advised to prevent the bags from spilling their contents. When no help is available the use of suitably sized containers (like large coffee cans or half-gallon ice cream containers or small buckets (like those sold in paint stores for mixing paint)) will work very well.

(5) Squirt the NovAqua and AmQuel into the opened bags (measuring isn't necessary) and into the tanks into which the fishes are to be placed.

(6) As soon as all of the bags and tanks have been dosed with the NovAqua and AmQuel return to the first bags and start transferring all of the fishes to their tanks (obviously dead fishes should not be placed into the tanks, but when in doubt (remember, some shippers use tranquilizers) place them in the tanks). Use bare hands when practicable; use nets when not.

(7) After all bags have been emptied of their fishes double check them for any missed occupants and then discard the water down the drain (in those areas where the sewage isn't sterilized before being discharged into rivers or lagoons, treat the water with chlorine bleach before letting it go down the drain).

(8) Temperature considerations are important only if the tank water is colder than the water in the bags (except for cold water fishes, such as goldfish and koi, where it is better if the tank water is the same temperature or colder than the water in the bags). Using hot or cold tap water in the tanks quickly corrects the temperature differential if needed (remember, the NovAqua and AmQuel completely conditions any added tap water).

(9) Fishes acclimated with the "squirt and dump" method are often ready to feed in a matter of 15 minutes or so. Fishes that were near death in their shipping bags will often revive and will be happily swimming about in a similar time span.

(10) The reasons for not floating bags are quite clear and reasonable:

(a) floated bags warm up increasing the oxygen requirements of the fishes in them

( it has been suggested that there is a certain amount of atmospheric gas exchange between the water in the bag and the air outside; this gas exchange is stopped when the bags are immersed in water

© bags can be expected to carry contaminating microorganisms on their outside surfaces; floating them allows contamination of the tank water

(d) adding water to the bags almost always increases the pH and thereby immediately increases the toxicity of the ammonia the fishes have excreted during their transportation

(e) aerating the bags will increase the dissolved oxygen concentration and it will drive off some of the accumulated carbon dioxide, but as the carbon dioxide is driven off the pH can be expected to rise, and as in (d) above, the ammonia becomes more toxic

(f) allowing water from the bags to enter the tanks is, of course, a totally irresponsible practice; this introduces not only the pollutants that have accumulated in the bag water, but also disease-causing organisms are introduced to the tank

(g) finally, keeping the fishes in their polluted shipping water longer than necessary is a poor husbandry practice

Any thoughts?

[Cap'n]

I think it sounds like a commercial supplier trying to justify their haphazard methods of treating new arrivals.

[midgetwaiter]

Sounds about right although I would not agree with their wonder product curing all issues etc.

They don't explain the pH thing very well though. In addition to the concern about the CO2 lowering pH you will also find that many long distance shipments will actually have the pH of th water in the bags quite low on purpose. At low pH ammonia is less toxic.

It is much, much easier to adjust the pH of the destination tank through a short life acid compund to match the shipping water than through any other metod. You then let the pH slowly rise to match the normal water paramaters either naturally or through the use of buffers. Usually over the course of a few hours but with really sensitive fish (eg. discus) over the course of a few days.

The reasons they use to justify not doing the floating the bag method seem a little hollow though. I think the fact that it takes too damn long is reason enough, plus the fact that you don't want that waste saturated water anywhere near your tanks. Time is of the essence, I can't imagine floating bags and adding water or doing drips when you have 6 boxes to unpack. Never mind 20.

[RD.]

More info on this subject here:

http://aquascienceresearch.com/APInfo/Acclimate.htm

And a lengthy discussion on CF can be found here:

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=84883

[midgetwaiter]

That is an interesting thread.

It makes a persuasive argument that FW fish should not suffer much from rapid pH change, especially not an increase. What the various posters have to say makes some sense. One problem though, I've seen it with mine own two eyes.

I recall 2 things, once when a newbie discus keeper I did my water change but had forgot to use my softener and "acid buffer" as I usually did. Obvious, immediate distress, total pH change in the tank was about 6.5 -> 7.0, so not too much.

Second was more recent, I was unpacking some fish and placed a bag full into the wrong tank. Again, obvious immediate distress. I probably would have never noticed the mistake had the fish not been in such a bad state. Moving them one tank over, which had it's pH lowered correctly, made an immediate difference.

My understanding of chemistry and molecular biology doesn't go beond high school but the arguments supporting this theory of no pH shock seem pretty good. I just can't understand what I've seen if I accept what they are saying.

[dunl]

So are you saying that it is better to add immediately, or is it better to "float" them?

[RD.]

I've never floated new fish (freshwater), and never once had any problems.

I tend to agree with the posters & info in the links that I provided above.

[dunl]

Well, I have transferred fish in the past by netting, but never really paid attention to it (especially in my earlier days in the hobby). After that, I have always floated fish.

So last night, before I started this thread, I used the netting method for my new 4-stripe damsels in my saltwater tank. I figured conditions in the tank HAVE to be better than the bag water after the trip from Edmonton.

Well, the fish appeared instantly acclimatized. No distress, none of this hiding, gasping for even a few seconds, etc. They went in the tank, and instantly swam around like they owned the place, checking out every nook and cranny they could see, and darting back up to the front of the glass to check me out.

Think I will be heading this way from now on.....

[Toirtis]

The original list of steps posted sounds like they are being suggested for large bags of fish that have been in transport for 12+ hours....like those a shop might get in from Singapore....in those cases, lowering pH in the receiving tanks goes a long way to lowering losses.

[midgetwaiter]

So are you saying that it is better to add immediately, or is it better to "float" them?

Provided that the temp difference is not too large, yes. I will usually let really cold bags warm up a bit first.

[Cap'n]

Well, I have transferred fish in the past by netting, but never really paid attention to it (especially in my earlier days in the hobby). After that, I have always floated fish.

So last night, before I started this thread, I used the netting method for my new 4-stripe damsels in my saltwater tank. I figured conditions in the tank HAVE to be better than the bag water after the trip from Edmonton.

Well, the fish appeared instantly acclimatized. No distress, none of this hiding, gasping for even a few seconds, etc. They went in the tank, and instantly swam around like they owned the place, checking out every nook and cranny they could see, and darting back up to the front of the glass to check me out.

Think I will be heading this way from now on.....

Keep in mind that those are a couple of the hardiest fish you can tank from the ocean and place in a tank. I would advise caution at following the same procedure with more delicate specimens.

[dunl]

So how would you handle more delicate specimens?

[Cap'n]

Float the bag and add a cup of tank water every 15 - 20 minutes until there is more tank water in the bag than store water. Then transfer without dumping contents of the bag, preferably by hand or container. If the bag is too small for enough water I like to scoop some of the bag water out and replace with tank water. Soon the new specimen will be swimming in water from its new home before even being released from the bag.

Edited November 13, 2005 by CptCleverer

[RD.]

If one is going to go that route, I would also suggest adding some Prime/ClorAm-X etc to the bag to neutralize any possible ammonia.

[Cap'n]

I usually try to do a water change just before introducing the new fish and use (as always) a little bit extra Prime. I figure that should help get rid of any extra ammonia. I guess adding some to the travel bag would be a good idea if they were in there any length of time, but since most of my purchases are local they are usually only in transport for 5 to 30 minutes.