Mighty Prawn Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 This is a quick idea of what I had planned for my sump. Everything is pretty much self-explanatory. In case you are wondering why the kitchen scrubbers, I only have 2 boxes of bio balls, and apparently you need a box per 35 gallons. I looked up some alternative bio media and these came up as the number 1 option. Does this all look okay? My plan was just to have the water dumping out of an opening, no spray bar, is this fine? Any majour problems you guys can see, stuff that isn't necessary? Something I am missing? I was thinking maybe instead of algae to have a ton of plants in the last area, to aid in eating up nitrates. Nothing fancy, just a bunch of potted plants and possibly duckweed or java moss floating up top. The sponge in front of the pump is to ensure no large stray particles have a chance making it into my pump. Alright comments please! -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 It looks good to me. One thing I will mention though, is the great advantage of a sump is you can make it a trickle filter(wet/dry sump). That is where you would need a spraybar or as I did, a drip tray. The advantage of a trickle filter lies in taking good care of your bacteria. Treat it as if it were your brother. Nitrosomonas and nitrobacter organisms that provide the biofiltration also need oxygen to survive. If they have access to gaseous oxygen rather than relying on the oxygen in the water, they will be performing at their peak. For yours to act as a wet/dry, I'd move the heaters to another compartment, move the bioballs/dish scrubbers(good idea!) to the first compartment, lower the water line a bit, and find some way of dispersing the water. Now that can be anything from a spraybar(effective, but high maintenance as its prone to clogging), a drip tray(easy concept, just takes some fiddling to get the holes the right diameter for the amt of flow you have), or even just something the water splashes onto to disperse the water somewhat over the biofiltration(noisy, but effective). Other points to consider, The plants will require a light source otherwise they will die and become a hindrance rather than a benefit. Have you considered doing a reverse photoperiod if your main tank is going to be planted? You'll avoid the pH shift that way, especially if you use pressurized CO2(which you may need to if you do this as a trickle filter. DIY yeast just doesn't cut it for large tanks or tanks with trickle filters) Plumbing, hard pvc, or soft hose? Hard will cause more noise on your intake into the filter, but doesn't really matter on the return. Is your tank drilled or will you have an overflow box? Syphon break on the return? Otherwise you'll have to be fairly careful of how full you fill the sump. I have a min/max line drawn on mine so I know not to overfill. If the power gets shut off for whatever reason, you don't want to syphon off your tank and flood the sump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murminator Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Wouldn't all the sponges and bio-balls just become a nitrate factory? I maybe a little more experienced with SW and I took out all my sponges and balls out and reduced my nitates big time. Would FW be different? I took half the sponges in my fluval of my FW to get them lower, and just siphon my gravel better and a 20% water changes every week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 FW nitrates are removed via regular water changes. This is not feasible with saltwater as it would get very expensive very fast if you were doing 50% changes every week The bacteria populations will regulate themselves to the bioload of the tank and will correspondingly put out a proportionate amount of nitrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
street cypher Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Like Dave pointed out already, the bioballs and pot scrubbers will not be nearly as effective when fully submerged. In order for them to work at 100% they need access to the air, hence the wonders of the trickle filter. If you do not want a trickle filter then i'd replace all the bioballs and pot scrubbers with something extremely porous such as lava rock or ceramic rings. And p.s. the pot scrubbers are great for a W/D setup, you'll get funny looks when you go to the local dollar store and buy all their pit scrubbers lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 If you're going to do a planted section to remove nitrates, go terrestrial. Buy a Peace Lily or two, maybe a couple Pothos or Phylodendron. Just put their roots in the water, and you'll never see nitrates again! The nice thing about terrestrials is that they don't near as much light as aquatic plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Prawn Posted February 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 So wait, the bio balls and pot scrubbers themselves need air, or the water needs to trickle onto them instead of just pouring on? Making it so the bio balls and scrubbers are not fully submerged is going to be difficult if not impossible :-/ -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mighty Prawn Posted February 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 Okaaaay, how about something like this? 2 trays that are long, wide and shallow, holes drilled in the bottom everywhere, with a layer of bio balls, dripping into another tray with 2 layers of kitchen scrubbers, dripping into the tank up to a particular level, perhaps a big piece of lava rock or something in the big empty space in the tank, unless there's something cheaper I could use. Does this look better? This way the bio media is not fully submerged and has airflow all the time. -Hideo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
street cypher Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) There are many variations of trickle filters out there, This is a very common setup, the water level is going to stay fairly low, the bioballs/pot scrubbers would be sit inside the tower to the left and the water level would not be higher than the bottom of the tower. Edited February 8, 2006 by street cypher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) yup, something like that. Here is my sump diagram: #1 Return from the tank. Flex hose in my case #2 Drip Tray. Drilled with 5/32 holes all over except right in the middle, allowing even water distribution over the entire tray. This sits on a few little braces siliconed to the walls of the sump. #3 Thin filter foam that can be rinsed, a precautionary measure to avoid the drip tray from clogging. This also muffles the sound of the return water entering the sump. #4 Bioballs, or in your case, dish scrubbers(I love it!). People have used all sorts of media from green army men to your grandma's old curlers. Basically, you're looking for something with a really big surface area. #5 Eggcrate, found at your local home depot. This sits on a couple of little braces, holding up the media. #6 Heater. #7 A small baffle to discourage any sediment from travelling through the sump, and also eliminates air bubbles if you do ever get any. #8 Stick whatever you want in here. Plants, lava rock, extra filter media, etc. #9 Foam block or fine filter floss as the last measure to keep detrius out of the pump compartment. #10 Pump. To each their own, but I aim for at least 7-8 water turnovers an hour. Read the rating on your pump and see if it will meet your demands with the head pressure. #11 Supply water to the tank. I have this done in hard pvc.I do not have any way of regulating my pump speed, and I didn't want to put a 1/4 turn valve in-line, as I assumed it would be too much stress on the pump, so I cameup with this solution:I show a fine tuning measure that I implemented just on the offhand that I initially didn't drill the driptray holes big enough, or my standpipe couldn't take the flow that the pump was wanting to pump out. Its a return pipe back into the sump, fitted with a 1/4 turn ball valve. This way, if I want to completely cut off flow to the main tank, I can open up the valve and it will just recirculate through the pump. Handy for feeding times and whatnot. If you make allowances in your driptray for major flow, you could even pipe it into there and double-filter the water somewhat before it goes back to the main tank. #12 Notice how the drip tray edge is lower than the actual top of the tank. This is another precautionary measure, allowing for the fact that the drip tray might clog and you are not around to catch the flood. This way, if you either #1 underside the tray, or #2 keep it below the top of the sump, the extra water will just spill down into section #8. This is what my sump is modeled after: http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/wetdry.htm As others have said on this site, you don't have to have a fancy sump. Anything that will hold water will do. One rubbermaid tub and one stacking drawer set from Wal-Mart will work, as seen in this article: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_wet_dry.php The drawers can hold your media, and if you get the 3 tier drawer unit, you can use the first drawer as your drip tray, your second as your media storage compartment, and remove the 3rd to allow the water to flow into the rest of your sump. El-cheapo, but if it fits under your stand, go for it No one is going to see Edited February 8, 2006 by Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvision Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 If you're looking for a good, cheap source for lava rock, head to Home Depot or Canadian Tire, and pick up a bag of BBQ bricks. Make sure it's the kind that is just lava rock, not the little brickettes soaked in lighter fluid. :boom: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
street cypher Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Just a tip on the pot scrubbers, they distribute the best if you unroll them all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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