skinless Posted October 21, 2006 Report Share Posted October 21, 2006 I have just caught what i believe to be a case of hexamita with one of my cichlids. symptoms: hasn't eaten for three days. sluggish with white stringy feces since that time. read up on metronidazole, past threads, etc.. can anyone share some successful treatments used in the past. i'm especially curious about: the temp used for treatment. the number of times the tank was dosed. if possible, the actual product used. do i really need to contact a vet for a decent drug? i've got a 20g for treatment, and i'm leaning towards treating the water. not sure soaked food will be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Probably too little too late...but, I'll throw in my 3 cents. Hopefully, this doesn't turn into a small book! LOL! Ive got a fair bit of experience with Metro, as it's used pretty extensively in the Discus trade. I'm gonna 'nutshell' it here, so if you have anymore questions don't hesitate. Basically, by the time you see white stingy feces, the Hex is in a somewhat advanced stage...got a good foot hold so to speak. Typical dosages wont work worth a crap at this stage. By 'Typical' I'm talking the 250 mg/10 gallons, once a day that is most often recommended. You need to 'Hit it hard'! The BEST way to dose Metro is at 400-500 mg/10 gallons every 8 hours for 3 to 4 days. Ive used the 500 mg dosage only once a day, and it does work...but not as well as every 8 hours. Metro loses it's efficacy after 8 hours and does next to nothing. As for Temp...There's still a bit of argument in the Discus world as to the proper temps involved. Some will tell you, Given it is a 'Human' med, developed for 'Human' temps...the higher the temp, the better. Some claim lower temps work just as well though. Ive had success with both...so I'm kind of sittin' on the fence on this one. Consider as well, that these are 'Discus' people talking here, and were talking Discus temps that might not be tolerated by other species. Discus are normally kept anywhere from 82-86 degree's (28-30c) and when a Discus keeper says 'elevated temps' they're usually taking in the range of 90-92 degree's (32-33c) If you are dosing Metro though....I'd recommend the highest temp that you think the fish will tolerate to be most effective. Not sure of brands, or availability anymore...Metro (on the shelf)was getting scarce when I left Calgary over a year ago. I used to use Aquatronics stuff...but I think they're TU now. Riverfront used to carry Seachem Metro in a small vial, check with them. I also used to get 'Flagyl'(same thing) from 'da back room' at Pisces in 250 mg tabs....you'd probably have to be in tight with someone there to swing that though. Hope this helps Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I agree with Tony as far as dosage rates for Met, and here's an excellent read on the subject: http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/spironucleus.php Having said that, if treating the water I would highly reccomend Jungle Tank Buddies Parasite Clear. I've heard & read nothing but very positive things about this particular med for fish with hexamita type symptoms. The combination of metronidazole & praziquantel seems to have a potent effect on both internal, as well as external parasites. It will also not harm your bio bacteria. 3 treatments 48 hours apart with a 25% water change before each treatment. HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Having said that, if treating the water I would highly reccomend Jungle Tank Buddies Parasite Clear. I've heard & read nothing but very positive things about this particular med for fish with hexamita type symptoms. The combination of metronidazole & praziquantel seems to have a potent effect on both internal, as well as external parasites. I havent tried the Jungle product myself, but I did forget to mention a new product that I have tried, and seemed to work very well. Geltek, Ultra Cure PX from 'Aquarium Products' It contains Prazi, Metro, and Flubenol. It's a 'gel' type med for internal usage...your SUPPOSED to just 'drip' it into the tank, and the fish are supposed to eat the drops because of some magical pheromones that they use as an attractant. BS....they wouldn't touch the stuff! Healthy or otherwise....So I soaked Tetrabits with it, and they accepted it well. (sorry RD, tried NLS, but the pellets don't soak the meds up at all) A three day treatment with this stuff made a total turn around with one Discus, and gave a huge appetite increase to another. We'll definitely try it again! http://www.aq-products.com/geltek/geltek.htm Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronrca Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Well, well! Look who's here. Welcome Tony! Guess when simplydiscus is down, we have time to visit other forums. lol I also agree with Tony on the dosages and temps. I dont have much experience with sick fish yet however just finished a metro treatment on some discus using 400mg/10G every 8 hours. I elevated the temp to 34C because bacteria multiply quicker in higher temps. The discus have improved in behavior and no white feces. Where to get metro? Check some stores out. They may carrry Seachems Metro. I just bought some from Natures Corner in Edmonton actually. Mops have metro available online as well and sell it in 5g and 100G bottles I beleive. Another place to buy other meds such as prazi is www.clarkekoi.com HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Just keep in mind that while Discus can handle higher temps (such as 34 C) not all cichlid species can. Also, if one is to elevate temps in their tank, you also need to make certain that you have a lot of surface agitation as 02 will become depleted at higher temps, and this too can cause major stress to a fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony_S Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Well, well! Look who's here. Welcome Tony! Guess when simplydiscus is down, we have time to visit other forums. lol Hey Ron! Good to see ya! Actually, I have very little use for MOST forums other than Simplydiscus....But I like the 'tone' here....so far, so good. I'll do my best to behave myself! LOL! Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronrca Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Well, well! Look who's here. Welcome Tony! Guess when simplydiscus is down, we have time to visit other forums. lol Hey Ron! Good to see ya! Actually, I have very little use for MOST forums other than Simplydiscus....But I like the 'tone' here....so far, so good. I'll do my best to behave myself! LOL! Tony I hear you! Besides simplydiscus, this is the only other forum I frequent. Excellant people, great info however lacking severly on the discus side unfortunately. I also love the classifieds! Neil, Excellant points to mention! Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willfishguy Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'd also like to mention that if or when the fish are eating, to feed them a food rich in garlic. Fresh/frozen foods can be marinated in a minced garlic and water mixture (keep an eye on water quality just after feeding, but do feed small portions at a time). Use a 5% garlic to food ratio, or purchase a food already enriched in garlic. Garlic will boost the immune system and kills bacteria, protozoans and viruses. The small 5% portion will not harm the biological filtration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinless Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 well fellahs, a weekend late, but excellent news. the fish is better than evers. i may have been a touch 'fox news' with the hexamita scare. but i watch my fish alot, and after about a week i noticed a new arrival had significantly changed in appearance and attitude. as soon as he started crapping pearl necklaces i had to jump to catch it early as possible. the fish went about 15 days total without food, so i finally tried those geltek drops last week. first two days nothing. wed/thu/fri he ate the gel. sat he took nls. now he's demanding lol. good thing too, cause saturday was gonna be my breaking point and i was going to get a tank treatment going. not completely out of the woods yet though. i still have to find a hearty deuce in the tank lol. i hate to add even prime to my tanks, so i really wanted peoples personal experiences with tank dosing. since i had zero experience with metronidazole, and was fearing the worst based on my hack diagnosis. i have only seen hith once pitting kicks in, so i figured i had caught it asap based on the other symptoms showing. i've read that cichlids are susceptible to it and that a number of causes can apparently 'set it off'. into the first week of fasting, my research had convinced me bloat was indeed the culprit lol. aargh! lesson learned: whenever i ask for help or advice, i'll provide symptoms only. still no clue what happened other than an internal parasite was active for half a month. daaammmnnn. and the fish in question is an awesome as hell male grammode. thanks again, nandopsis!!#1 almost RIP skinless lol somebody buy his tanks already!!! and thanks for the advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willfishguy Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 well fellahs, a weekend late, but excellent news. the fish is better than evers. This is great news, and I've learned one hell of a lot from this little thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RD. Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 skinless ..... if the fish is now accepting NLS, I would suggest putting it on the TherA formula. The higher protein & fat levels will help boost its immune system, and the mega dose of garlic found in that formula won't hurt either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronrca Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'd also like to mention that if or when the fish are eating, to feed them a food rich in garlic. Fresh/frozen foods can be marinated in a minced garlic and water mixture (keep an eye on water quality just after feeding, but do feed small portions at a time). Use a 5% garlic to food ratio, or purchase a food already enriched in garlic. Garlic will boost the immune system and kills bacteria, protozoans and viruses. The small 5% portion will not harm the biological filtration. Unfortunately, my discus refuse garlic. They claim it gives them bad breath and horrible gas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willfishguy Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I'd also like to mention that if or when the fish are eating, to feed them a food rich in garlic. Fresh/frozen foods can be marinated in a minced garlic and water mixture (keep an eye on water quality just after feeding, but do feed small portions at a time). Use a 5% garlic to food ratio, or purchase a food already enriched in garlic. Garlic will boost the immune system and kills bacteria, protozoans and viruses. The small 5% portion will not harm the biological filtration. Unfortunately, my discus refuse garlic. They claim it gives them bad breath and horrible gas! Try using a homeopathic dose, they won't even know it's in the food, and just tell them not to eat any chunks or if they do, tell them not to chew it as that is what causes the bad breath. As far as the gas goes, then they should follow through with the garlic cuz that's just from the garlic cleaning out all the accumulated bile cause by junk food. (: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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