RD.

Mine are 5 yrs old now, still working well, but they didn't come cheap. :cry: For whatever reason the entire line (Medusa) appears to now be discontinued. http://www.sealifesupply.com/medusa.htm There are far cheaper units out there, I've heard very good things about Ranco over the years,and they are priced more reasonably than a lot of similar units out there. http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc111000000-digital-temperature-controller-p-86.html or the pre-wired version ....... http://www.etcsupply.com/ranco-etc111000000-prewired-digital-temperature-controller-p-87.html HTH

This is just pure speculation on my part, but my guess as to why one is still seeing Naturose® on the market is some distributors may have bought very large quantities shortly after Cyanotech announced that they would no longer be producing or selling this product for the aquatic trade. Various vendors may in turn have done the same thing, and later realized that they had far more product than they could turn over before it began to degrade. That, or those vendors have no idea how quickly this product does degrade & assumed that it has a much longer shelf life than what it actually does. The bottom line is any Naturose® sold after March 2009 is probably well past the expiration date, and the longer it has been exposed to light, air, or stored above 4°C, the faster it will have degraded.

Personally I would just toss it out, but that's your call.

Both natural & synthetic forms of astaxanthin are still being produced by a number of manufacturers world-wide. Having said that Naturose was (is?) a registered trademark of Cyanotech Corp., which only produces natural astaxanthin derived from microalgae. (Haematococcus pluvialis) Using their brand name implies a certain level of quality & safety, as their products have always been considered some of the purest & highest quality in the world. A number of well known fish food manufacturers used their products, and many still do as Cyanotech still produces some of the highest quality sprirulina on the market, which they still sell as feed additive for the aquaculture industry. There are other manufacturers that also produce astaxanthin that is derived from microalgae, there are those that produce it from Phaffia rhodozyma (yeast), and there are those that are derived from petrochemicals, such as Carophyll Pink. IMO if someone is marketing & selling a synthetic form of astaxanthin as "Naturose" it would be more than just a bit misleading. The synthetic forms of astaxanthin cost a fraction(approx $2,000 kg) compared to a high quality natural form derived from Haematococcus pluvialis microalgae. (approx $7,000 kg) The synthetic forms contain different levels/forms of isomers, which have been shown to have different biological effects & activity in a fish, and which also impart a different overall coloration to fish. As to why some vendors are still selling astaxanthin under the name of Naturose would only be pure specualtion on my part.

That advice would apply to any perspective food purchase where the company in question had ceased making the food 3 yrs ago, and only had a 1 yr expiration date when it was still in production.

It's pretty funny to watch, not just growling but shaking & displaying for both of them as well.

Super nice sets ups, Jay! Makes me miss my natural biotope tanks.

While I realize that the previous topic I posted this information in may have been inappropriate, IMO it is definitely a message that I feel should get out there to hobbyists. IMO selling this product is no better than selling dog food that has exceeded its expiration date by 2-3 yrs. I wouldn't want to see that happen to anyone's dog, or anyone's fish. The makers of Naturose® astaxanthin (Cyanotech Corp.) have not been producing or selling this ingredient for animal feed since March 2008, and the shelf life of that product (even when stored under ideal temperature) is only 12 months. Back in 2008 this announcement by Cyanotech was posted on a number of news lines, as well as by Cyanotech, which can still be found on their website today. http://www.cyanotech.com/news/news_032608.html I personally confirmed the info above via a company rep at Cyanotech just last year (2010), as I continued to see a number of online vendors still selling & advertising Naturose. 1. What's being sold is either not Naturose, or 2. it's at least 2 years past its expiration date, in which case due to the high lipid content it may be going, or already is, in a serious state of decomposition. Some of you might recall when I had a 1kg sample sent to me several years ago for my own personal experimentation. Along with the sample I was sent a certificate of analysis by Cyanotech, where they clearly state that the expiration date is 1 year from the date of manufacture. They also state "Expiration date is based on proper storage in a tightly closed container at or below 4°C. At room temperature, shelf life may be reduced to 6 months from receipt of product." The main reason for the rather short shelf life is due to the high lipid (fat) content, which is 21%. Even with using ethoxyquin as the preservative for this product, when stored under ideal conditions (4°C) it's shelf life is only 12 months. My advice for anyone considering buying this product from an online vendor: 1.ask to see the invoice for the date that the product was purchased. 2.ask to see a copy of the certificate of analysis from that date. 3. ask them what temperature it has been stored at, and if it's in the original foil pack from Cyanotech, or if the original container was opened, and then parted out into small bags. All of the above will help you determine if this product is still safe, and usable. I suspect that no one will be willing to provide any of the above. Caveat emptor

Jay - if you read the link on BCA it will provide you with pretty much everything that you need to know on the subject. (as well as some ph #'s for Marineland) I didn't want a cheap glass replacement so I pulled all of my older Stealths, and my fairly new Pro, and tossed them all. All of mine were listed on the distributor list linked to above, and as previously stated there are other Lot #'s affected that are not currently on that list. Marineland has known about this for at least a year.

It's not exactly a recall, and yes, it does affect their older heaters as well. You can read the letter to their distributors here: http://reefbuilders.com/2011/02/14/marineland-stealth-pro-heaters-recall/ and more here: http://www.bcaquaria.com/forum/equipment-talk-section-14/get-your-stealth-pro-heaters-out-12475/ I just recently had an older Stealth leak stray current/voltage in my tank (tripped my GFCI breaker), and IMO all of the newer Stealth Pro models are ticking time bombs. I have seen several lot #'s besides the ones that Marineland has posted in their letter above, have serious issues, including blowing up in various peoples tanks.

I picked mine up when it was on sale in the US, but it looks like Pets & Ponds has it in Canada.

It's the dry powder version of Prime. Seachems Directions for Safe: To remove… Chlorine: use 1 measure to each 60 L (15 gallons*) of tap water (removes 1 ppm). Chloramine: use 1 measure to each 75 L (20 gallons*) of tap water (removes 1 ppm). Ammonia: use 1 measure to each 11 L (3 gallons*) of tap water (removes 1 ppm). Do not overdose! 1 measure of Safe (100 mg) is only a reference point. So using Safe for 2 mg/l of chloramine (such as Red Deer & Edmonton tap water), one would need to use 2 measures (200 mg) for every 20 gallons of tap water, or 1 gram per 100 gallons of tap water. That works out to approx. 1/8 teaspoon per 100 gallons of tap water. A 4kG container will treat 400,000 gallons of (Red Deer/Edmonton) tap water, a 4L jug of Prime will treat 80,000 gallons of chloramine treated tap water @ 2 mg/l chloramine. (Red Deer/Edmonton)

Ok, I thought that maybe you had bought a new tank. Even if you were treating for the entire volume of your tank, it would work out to 1/4 tsp for a 100 gallon tank. FYI - I use just over 1/8 teaspoon when doing 50% water changes in my 125's.

Jonah - what size tank are you using 1/2 tsp of Safe on?

IME a properly placed single grain of sand can stop an AC impeller shaft dead in its tracks, even with the larger 110's.

I haven't shut off a filter while doing a water change for as far back as I can remember. Most water conditioners act instantaneously so if one is dosing with water conditioner spread throughout the tank before they begin adding tap water, it's a non issue. The idjit that only topped his tank off didn't experience any issues while adding tap water as the massive organic load in the water would have broken down the small amount of chloramine being added very quickly. But I do shut off my heaters ....

I still don't understand you ........

Most likely an ammonia spike killed your fish, coupled with the fact that Melafix somewhat reduces 02 levels, which certainly wouldn't have helped matters. If you read the comment previous to yours the same scenario applies. A water conditioner that does not neutralize free ammonia (Nutrafin Aqua Plus) was being used to treat chloramine treated tap water, and a large water change had just been performed. (according to the OP) The end result would have been an ammonia spike coupled with lower than normal 02 levels, and that is the most likely cause of that Tropheus tank being wiped out. While I may not personally be a big fan of using Melafix in an aquarium, IMHO most of these horror stories are a direct result of operator error. Sorry to hear about your fish.

In Edmonton, I would start by giving Henry or Gillian a call at Natures Corner Store. I believe that they keep Seachem Kanamycin in stock.

No, not necessarily. The problem with cases of "wasting disease" is rarely are lab cultures taken, or necropsies performed to ascertain exactly what caused the fishes demise. Years back when I was a mod on cichlid-forum I ran into the symptoms that you describe on a weekly basis, but exactly what triggered this symptom in each fish was impossible to say. Some cases could be fish TB, some could have been parasites, and others perhaps an unknown strain of bacteria. Your fish is eating normally so we should be able to rule out internal parasites, that leaves bacterial, or viral. I would recommend treating the infected fish with Kanamycin sulfate. It's a broad spectrum antibiotic that treats both gram positive & gram negative bacteria. http://www.novalek.com/aquavet/kanamycin.htm http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/KanaPlex.html Be prepared for the worse, many fish simply don't react positively to any form of medication once the disease has become too advanced. Good luck!

Protein quantity has nothing to do with bloat. As stated by the OP, it already is eating properly, and the last thing that you want to do to a fish that is otherwise acting & eating normally, is withold nutrients, which is what amino acids (protein) are. If it was a serious case of internal parasites it wouldn't be eating at all, so I'm leaning more towards this being bacterial, sometimes referred to as wasting disease. Skinny disease in loaches is usually referring to internal parasites. commonly seen in recently collected loaches. Noodles - what species of cichlid is this fish, and what meds are you treating with?

Just a FYI ....... According to the Marineland rep that I spoke with today, all Stealth Pro models starting at 100W, and up are now being voluntarily "withdrawn" as they put it. They are not wanting to use the word recall, as at this point they are not recalling them. This stemmed from Petsmart pulling them off of their shelves last week due to returns & complaints nationwide. It seems that there more than just a "few" lot numbers affected, as marinleand was stating a few months back. The entire Stealth Pro line has got problems. Also on a similar note, Rena Smart heaters have now been discontinued as well. Sounds like from lack of sales, not from mechanical problems.

When it comes to keeping tropheus there is a ton of BS on the WWW. Bloat is caused by stress, and almost never triggered by dietary stress, unless the food is full of difficult to digest starch/grain fillers. I've lost count as to how many people I've seen feeding NLS exclusively & never once encountering bloat. Don Gross here in town probably maintained more tropehus tanks & species of tropheus than you will ever see in one room, and he also fed NLS, and had zero issues with bloat even when keeping adult breeding groups in 24x24" tanks. At that time he was keeping & breeding Kambwimba Red Rainbow, Ilangi, Bembas, Duboisi Maswa, Ikola Kaiser, Kiriza Kaiser II, and Bulu Point cherry spots. I grew out a dozen of his T. Kambwimba in a 50 gallon bare bones tank & also never had any bloat issues. About the only thing that growing algae in your tank will accomplish is assist in keeping the fish busy, and occupied on something other than each other. IMO the vast majority of bloat cases with herbivorous cichlids has nothing to do with the diet, but with other stressful factors, such as aggression, lack of shelter, water quality, etc., which in turn can cause a 'normal' amount of intestinal pathogens to proliferate to harmful numbers. Ad Konings & many otthers concur with this. In some cases it may be nothing more than survival of the fittest, which is what takes place in Lake Malawi & Lake Tanganyika every day. A fish with a weak immune system will obviously be the first fish to succumb to illness if/when stress becomes a factor, no matter what you feed them. These are definitely not beginner fish, they can be nasty pieces of work & if by the luck of the draw you end up with too many dominant males, or some smaller weaker specimens, the stress from aggression can end up triggering bloat within the colony. The secret to keeping tropheus successfully is as follows. 1. The larger the tank the better. When conversing with Mark Young (at that time a collector & exporter living on the shores of Lake Tanganyika) he told me that in his experience dom males would stop chasing at the 6-8ft mark, so he built all of his concrete vats 12 ft. End of aggression problems. 2. The more fish that you can accommodate in your tank the better, it helps spread aggression so that no one fish is ever singled out and chased or harassed relentlessly. Mark kept hundreds of tropheus together in his 12 ft vats, but they also held several hundred gallons of water. In a 75 gallon, I would go with a min of 15 adults, 20 is doable and probably better, so if buying juvies get 25-30, which will allow you to remove extra males as the fish mature. 3. Massive water changes on a regular basis, and high levels of 02 at all times. These fish are found in the surf zone, where there is lots of current & high 02 levels. If you don't like water changes, pass on tropheus, as the more fresh water that you can throw at them the better. Even in Mark's massive tanks he had a constant 24/7 flow of water being exported out of the bottom, and a constant 24/7 flow of fresh water coming in. 4. The less territory there is for dom males to fight over, the better. While not many people like bare tanks with no rock work, with tropheus less = more. Mark's large vats were typically void of any type of structure that a dom male might claim as being his. Sometimes he would add a few boulders when adding a new group of wild fish just to help calm them, once the fish settled in then out the rocks came. Other than a sand substrate, Don G's tropheus tanks were always bare as well. 5. Keep the diet simple, feed small amounts 2-3 times a day, vs one big meal a day. Personally I would not feed them brine shrimp to tropheus, but that's just me. These fish thrive on the KISS method of fishkeeping. The more that you deviate from the above, the more risk you will have in stressing out your fish, and potentially having them come down with bloat. Sometimes you can push the envelope and it's all good, and sometimes it can end up a disaster. Below is a pic of one of Mark's tropheus 'tanks". HTH

Nice to see that more recent science in this area has discovered what I have been saying for years. http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=3619&utm_source=PFK_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=February_11_2011&utm_term=Do_some_catfish_really_eat_wood?&utm_content=html

They are no longer in business.