Irresponsible breeding

[ace99]

There was an online auction for "albino eureka reds" yesterday with the following description....

"The pic. is of the Wild Caught Father and is almost an exact replica of what the males will look like...Some males are already showing tints of blue in face and body." (This is the description for all of his many fish up for auctioning)

We all know that this cannot be true because eureka reds are man-made and albinos don't have any blue coloring. When I emailed him about being more careful and honest about the fish descriptions, this is his response to me:

" Hey F*** YOU guys I use the same auction format for all my auctions and did not change some minor details. I have been breeding for 27 years and know what I am doing and talking about. Yes I know they are not in the wild and like I said I listed all these in the same format (description)."

This really gets my blood boiling because it gives all responsible breeders a bad name. As we all know...buyer beware!

He only added an amendment to the ebay description after I had emailed him. What do you guys think about this issue?

Edited November 19, 2006 by ace99

[JORG]

So tell us who was this breeder ?

[RD.]

While the auction description is a bit sloppy, it appears to be a simple mistake. The seller does in fact use a cut & paste format for all of his auctions, and while this doesn't excuse his mistake, I can see how it could have happened.

Here's the auction: Albino Eureka

and here's his website: Cichlids in Ohio

BTW - in the world of fish, albino is nothing more than a catch all term used to describe fish that are lacking some of their normal coloration. Albino fish can indeed have shades of blue in their overall coloration.

The dictionary defines albino as "an animal or plant with a marked deficiency in pigmentation", not something totally void of color.

[RDFISHGUY]

I would never again buy fish sight unseen. A fool and his money soon part . There are exceptions eg. Orders to reputable importers or if you know and trust the person you are buying from.

[RD.]

Fair enough, but what does any of this have to do with this seller being an irresponsible breeder?

I couldn't find a single complaint in his feedback , and quite frankly every last person that bought fish from him over the past 2 yrs, and posted feedback, posted a very positive review.

[RDFISHGUY]

There's hundreds of these morons out there but if you want to go after them all be my guest . The easiest thing to do is to educate the folks on this site so they don't buy from these guys. Can you sue them for false advertising? Is it even worth the effort? Half of the stores I shop at can't even get the names right, and with the taxonomy changing constantly and new species being discovered all of the time it only multiplies the problem. Just be thankful you're knowledgeable enough to pick these guys out and share your info with others.

[ace99]

All that I want to do is to raise awareness regarding the matter of fish that are sold are not always as advertised.

I do think that he is an irresponsible breeder because being a responsible breeder not only involves the breeding itself but the fair and honest distribution of the fish produced. Can we honestly believe that ALL of his fish had "wild caught" fathers. Don't you think that its wrong to "use the same auction format for all his auctions and not changing some minor details" even though the information is not true for all the fish. For serious breeders out there, there is a huge difference between an F1 fish and "any old" fish....definately not a minor detail. I just don't think that it is right to mislead potential buyers because I'm sure that many of us have purchased juvies only to find out later on that they are not as promised or worse yet....a hybrid. If it was an honest mistake, his rude response to my email sure did not convince me of his honest mistake.

Edited November 21, 2006 by ace99

[RD.]

Can we honestly believe that ALL of his fish had "wild caught" fathers.

I took a close look at ALL of his auctions, and ALL of the fish listed on his website, and I still see an honest mistake, and not a case of misrepresentation. On his website his fish are listed as wild, F1, etc, and the albinos & OB's have no filial designation attached to them.

http://cichlidsinoh.business614.com/list_peacocks.php

Nothing sinister going on from what I can see.

Had he wanted to misrepresent his fish as being ALL wild caught, he could have easily done so by using a bogus user ID on eBay that wouldn't lead anyone back to his personal website. eBay certainly won't step in when there's a potential case of misrepresentation when it comes to selling fish on their site, so that would be the way a crook (at least one with half a brain) would go about flogging duds on eBay.

Was his response rude, yes, but then again you didn't post your email to him. At the time you also felt that albino eureka reds could not possibly show any blue, as they're albinos, which in fact is not true. Quite frankly I've yet to see an albino eureka red that didn't show at least some blue (most have blue in the fins), but then again anything is possible with hybrid strains. Ironically I seldom see anyone list albino African peacocks as hybrids, yet in 99% of the cases that's exactly what they are.

Are these sellers also all irresponsible breeders?

Was his listing his auctions via cut & paste in an eBay template a sloppy way of going about

his business, absolutely, but that still doesn't necessarily make him a crook, or an irresponsible breeder.

Normally I wouldn't get involved in a thread such as this one, but I hate to see a persons name dragged through the mud without them having the opportunity to defend their actions.

[fairdeal]

Last year I had someone come over to my house to pick up some fish and he told me that there was a person in Calgary selling W/C ruby reds and he was going to pick up a few because they were only $25 each. When I explained to him that there was no such a thing as a W/C ruby red he was most appreciatjve that he had not bought any and admitted that he was pretty new at african cichlids. Just this week another person told me that he had an F1 female ruby and was looking for a nice male.

When you are purchasing african cichlids from anyone don't be afraid to ask for the details on where the seller got them, the lineage, what they have been fed,etc.

Also look for things that don't look normal - eyes that seem too big for the body, poorly shaped fins and body, sunken bellies, etc.

If you are not sure what the fish should look like check out sites like cichlid-forum.com and look at the profile section. This will give you a synopsis of the fishes behaviour, etc. and also several pictures. It will also tell you things like if the fish are line bred or not. If you are told that the fish is W/C or F1 and you now know for a fact that they are hybrids or line bred then that seller is not someone you want to be dealing with. Like already mentioned it is "buyer beware", but if you do your homework and deal with reputable sellers it certainly increases your chances of a successful purchase.