Prime versus ClorAm-X for water treatment

[RD.]

Perhaps this will explain it better than I did.

From the Seachem website:

Q: I am using Prime™ to control ammonia but my test kit says it is not doing anything, in fact it looks like it added ammonia! What is going on?

A: A Nessler based kit will not read ammonia properly if you are using Prime™... it will look "off scale", sort of a muddy brown (incidentally a Nessler kit will not work with any other products similar to Prime™). A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime™), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away. However, the best solution is to use our MultiTest: Ammonia™ kit... it uses a gas exchange sensor system which is not affected by the presence of Prime™ or other similar products. It also has the added advantage that it can detect the more dangerous free ammonia and distinguish it from total ammonia (which is both the free and ionized forms of ammonia (the ionized form is not toxic)).

The following info sent to me in the past from Seachem is much along the same lines as above, but in a bit more detail.

If the pH drops ammonia will not be released back into the water, and even if it did, it

would be ionized ammonia (NH4+) which is totally non-toxic;

only free ammonia NH3 is toxic.

The only time ammonia removal products will release ammonia is if the pH goes up, WAY UP, like

around 12 to 14! That only occurs when testing with Nessler or salicylate based ammonia kits... they raise the pH to convert all ammonia to free ammonia and test for free ammonia at pH 14. So actually if you are

using ammonia removal products and test for ammonia with these type of tests you will get false readings for ammonia.

You can get a somewhat accurate result with a salycilate based kit if you take your reading right away rather than waiting the full prescribed time, but the trick is knowing when exactly to take that reading.

Our Ammonia Alert and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia both use a gas exchange based sensor technology that is not affected by the presence of ammonia removal products. Both give an accurate reading for free ammonia without any interference.

Depending on how much chloramines you have you can use either Prime or Safe. Prime is a liquid product for removing, chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. It actually removes chlorine by converting it to harmless chloride; the chloramine is removed by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond, the chlorine is then reduced to

chloride and the ammonia is then bound until it is utilized within the biological filtration. Unless you raise your pH to 12 it will not release the ammonia back. Safe is a dry version of Prime and is thus more

concentrated. Economically it is the best way to go, however many prefer using a liquid product for ease of use.

All of the ammonia removal products on the market work chemically essentially the same way, they reduce chlorine to choride and bind up ammonia. But, the chemical species used are all slightly different.

HTH

Edited December 22, 2006 by RD.

[Toirtis]

WHere can you buy ChlorAm-X?

Apparently Kane Vet Supply in Edmonton carries it, so any shop that buys wholesale from them should be able to get it easily.

[arixonbarnes]

I received a reply from Island Scallops, the dealer in Canada for ClorAm-X. This is the treatment volumets and prices they gave me.

5 lb box @$60 treats over 71,000 L

10 lb box @$100 treats over 142,000 L

25 kg box@$400 treats over 784,000 L.

Prime treats 40 liters with 1 milliliter of prime. A 2 liter prime bottle (about $75 to 80 @ Big Al's Edmonton) will treat 80,000 liters.

It would appear that the dry version of Prime will likely be the best deal as the $60 for ClorAm-x does not include shipping.

Edited December 24, 2006 by arixonbarnes

[ronrca]

Thanks Neil for sharing that info however it didnt explain whether it measures ammonia bond by prime or not bond by prime. If the test kits would only measure NH3 not bond by prime, sweet, however it seems they dont as they mention that they "use a gas exchange based sensor technology that is not affected by the presence of ammonia removal products. Both give an accurate reading for free ammonia without any interference." I would like a test kit that measures NH3 that is not bond by prime, that can separate the NH3 bond and the NH3 not bond by prime, a test kit that is affected by ammonia removal products. This would indicate whether you are using enough prime or have a problem in the cycle process.

Regarding 2l Prime, I found that jlaquatics.com has the best price. I think it was around $40-45.

Edited December 24, 2006 by ronrca

[RD.]

Ron, that's exactly what the Seachem test does. NH3 = free ammonia

Our Ammonia Alert and MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia both use a gas exchange based sensor technology that is not affected by the presence of ammonia removal products. Both give an accurate reading for free ammonia without any interference.

I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this? lol

When using the Seachem Multi Test, any "free ammonia" (NH3) that shows on their test, is NOT being bound by the water conditioner. That is the entire concept behind using such a test kit, and not your typical test kits that are usually found at your LFS. The Multi-Test kit gives an accurate reading of NH3, while most do not.

Seachem's Ammonia Alert uses the same sensors, and does the same thing.

http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pa...moniaAlert.html

[ronrca]

As far as I understand Neil, free ammonia has nothing to do with being bonded or not. Free ammonia is simply unionised ammonia. If they are claiming that the readings are not affected by the presence ammonia removal products, I understand that it doesnt matter whether there is or isnt prime, the reading is accurate for NH3 without any interference. Perhaps its the wording or something that is throwing me for a loop as they dont mention anything about the complexed (bond by prime) portion of ammonia.

I did check Seachems site regarding the Alert and in the Q&A I found this which, for me, is clearer.

Q: Does Ammonia Alert properly detect toxic ammonia in the presence of Prime?

A: If the Prime has not complexed with the ammonia yet it will detect it, but it won't detect it if the Prime has already complexed it (which makes sense because when Prime has complexed with the ammonia it is no longer toxic). If you want to know the total ammonia level (free, ionized and complexed) you would need to run a Total Ammonia Test (like with our MultiTest: Free & Total Ammonia.

http://www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/AmmoniaAlertFAQ.html

Thanks Neil for pointing me in the right direction. I guess I need to read it rather than assume it.

In water with ph of 7.8, I wonder what portion of total ammonia is free and ionised?

Edited December 24, 2006 by ronrca