Prime versus ClorAm-X for water treatment

[arixonbarnes]

I have almost used my 2 liter container of Prime up in the last year or so (100+ gallons of water changes twice a week) and was thinking about ClorAm-X. Does anybody have any experience good or bad with ClorAm-X?

[johnsmith]

Here's another thread in which the ClorAm was mentioned: Thread.

[RD.]

I've been using ClorAm-X since Sept 2004 with nothng but positive experiences.

IMO if one has to deal with chloramine treated tap water, ClorAm-X & Seachem Safe are the best products on the market.

[a1foxes]

I have almost used my 2 liter container of Prime up in the last year or so (100+ gallons of water changes twice a week) and was thinking about ClorAm-X. Does anybody have any experience good or bad with ClorAm-X?

I used the ChlorAm-X for a while, but find I get better bang for my buck with the Prime. I'm

using pretty much all Seachem now, the Stability stuff is totally awesome.

[Goldfish Girl]

Prime cleans up. i go through about five 2L bottles of that stuff a year. its liquid gold in our house, but worth every penny. esspecially in the spring when the city decides to add all sorts of extra chemicals into the water. its nice to be one of the people who don't have their fish die at that time.

[RD.]

I'm not too sure how anyone can get more "bang for their buck" when using a watered down version of a dry powder formula, but to each their own.

The key ingredients used in Prime are the same as any other water conditioner that's designed for water that's treated with chloramine. It breaks the chlorine/ammonia bond, converts chlorine to chloride, and binds the ammonia until it is utilized by your bio filters. It's not going to "save" anyones fish if your local lines get a large surge of heavy metals etc through them. During the spring run off I always use extra water conditioner to account for the added chlorine/ammonia, no matter what the brand.

For those of you that only have to deal with chlorine, and not chloramine, sodium thiosulfate will give you even more bang for your buck. You can read more on this subject here;

http://216.168.47.67/CIS-Fishnet/AFM/G29151.htm

In Canada sodium thiosulfate can be purchased in bulk here;

http://www.aquamerik.com/catalogue/produit...dium&lg=eng

HTH

Edited December 19, 2006 by RD.

[Toirtis]

I use Prime or Safe, but have not had any real experience with the Chlor-Am-X, sorry.

[Vallisneria]

WHere can you buy ChlorAm-X?

I use prime right now but would consider switching to Chloram-X to save the money if they do the same things.

[RD.]

If Randy still ships to Canada, his prices are very good.

http://www.reed-mariculture.com/cloram-x/

Just make sure that they include an MSDS sheet with the order.

[seajays]

Also Island Scallops..

http://www.islandscallops.com/

[ronrca]

It's not going to "save" anyones fish if your local lines get a large surge of heavy metals etc through them.

My experience with Prime has been that it will remove heavy metals. I was trying to figure out a system for auto wc's, particularily sensing low/high water levels and I was using titanitum rods. Within a couple of days, the titanitum rods were gone, totally. The deciding factor is what level of heavy waters may be present in the water and whether there is enough conditioner to deal with it.

Regarding the cost, both are very comparable per gallon treatment, within a penny I believe if I remember correctly when I calculated it last. I do have some ChlorAm however have not used it yet.

Btw, where can one buy Seachem Safe? I believe it is the powdered form of Prime.

Doing some quick calculations with Safe and ChlorAm. 1kg (2.2lbs) of safe treats 200,000G which would l last me around 15years using 250G/week wc's. Sweet!

5lbs of ChlorAm treats just under 20,000G.

Price for 1kg of Safe is around$75-80US.

Price for 5lbs of ChlorAm is around $28-35US.

Edited December 20, 2006 by ronrca

[RD.]

My experience with Prime has been that it will remove heavy metals.

Ron, you might want to read the info posted in the link by johnsmith. Prime will only detoxify trace amounts of heavy metals, as in what is typically allowed by local water municipalities. This would fall in the PPB range, which in most cases (if not all) would be considered non toxic to even the more sensitive marine invertebrates. In other words, in the typical ranges found in most tap water, these substances would have no effect on fresh water fish.

Personally I prefer the "less is more" philosophy when it comes to water treatments, which is why I also prefer products sans the slime coat additives. Healthy fish can produce their own slime coats.

Seachem Prime is a very good product, but due to the cost I prefer the dry powders.

Regarding the cost, both are very comparable per gallon treatment, within a penny I believe if I remember correctly when I calculated it last.

I guess that would depend on a couple of factors, one being how much one is paying for each product, and two, what type of water one is treating. Without the latter data, cost comparisons have zero value.

As an example, in the past when using Prime I found that in order to completely neutralize the ammonia once the chlorine/ammonia bond was split (in my local chloramine treated tap water) I needed to use a "double dose" of Seachem Prime, which meant that 500 ml of Prime was only treating 2500 gallons of tap water, not 5000 as advertised on their container. My ammonia levels were tested with Seachems very own Ammonia Multi-Test kit, which tests both free & total ammonia.. The ammonia level may in fact vary somewhat throughout the season, but using the "better safe than sorry" line of thinking I always used a double dose to be on the safe side. Suddenly Prime wasn't very cost effective, for me.

With ClorAm-X my free ammonia level is always at zero, when using their recommended dosage rate of 1 tsp per 40 gallons of tap water. No need to add "extra", even during spring run off. My greatest concern with water conditioners is their ability to neutralize all free ammonia, as in higher pH tap water such as what I have, even trace amounts of ammonia can cause negative health issues if fish are exposed to it on a weekly basis. The higher the pH, the more toxic ammonia becomes to fish.

Seachem Safe isn't exactly easy to find, and almost impossible to locate in Canada, hence the reason why I use ClorAm-X. BTW - according to at least one bulk supplier of Safe in the US, 50g of Safe treats 5000 gallons.

If that data is correct, I believe that 1kg would treat just under 100,000 gallons, not 200,000.

Even still, that is FAR more cost effective than using Prime!

This is the only online bulk supplier of Safe that I have found. 4kg for $69.99 US.

http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic...;subcatID=ad-wc

10 lb's of ClorAm-X can be purchased for $45.00 US, but if the data on Safe is correct, then it is by far the cheapest route to go. After another 38,000 gallons or so worth of water changes, I'll probably be looking into that.

Edited December 22, 2006 by RD.

[ronrca]

My experience with Prime has been that it will remove heavy metals.

Ron, you might want to read the info posted in the link by johnsmith. Prime will only detoxify trace amounts of heavy metals, as in what is typically allowed by local water municipalities.

Neil, I just mentioned that the prime dissolved the titantium rods, totally ate them up from using prime within a couple of days and my discus didnt even blink an eye. If that indicates trace amounts of heavy metals Im still amazed. The factor would be the interpretation of 'trace' amounts.

As an example, in the past when using Prime I found that in order to completely neutralize the ammonia once the chlorine/ammonia bond was split (in my local chloramine treated tap water) I needed to use a "double dose" of Seachem Prime, which meant that 500 ml of Prime was only treating 2500 gallons of tap water, not 5000 as advertised on their container. My ammonia levels were tested with Seachems very own Ammonia Multi-Test kit, which tests both free & total ammonia.. The ammonia level may in fact vary somewhat throughout the season, but using the "better safe than sorry" line of thinking I always used a double dose to be on the safe side. Suddenly Prime wasn't very cost effective, for me.

The test kits will still measure ammonia when using Prime however it has been bond by prime to render it harmless to the fish. Couple of years ago I email Seachem regarding this. I'll look for it and post it. Ive never had a problem with detoxing ammonia/nitrite levels with the recommended dosage.

Seachem Safe isn't exactly easy to find, and almost impossible to locate in Canada, hence the reason why I use ClorAm-X. BTW - according to at least one bulk supplier of Safe in the US, 50g of Safe treats 5000 gallons.

If that data is correct, I believe that 1kg would treat just under 100,000 gallons, not 200,000.

Seachem has 3 different dosages depending on the situation. I used the dosage that I would use (chloramines) and got the total gs. http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Safe.html

Thanks for the safe link! I'll check it out.

Edited December 22, 2006 by ronrca

[RD.]

Ron, as far as heavy metals, I'm only repeating what was stated to me by the CEO of Seachem, Dr. Greg Morin. Exactly what took place in your tank with the titanium rods I have no idea.

The test kits will still measure ammonia when using Prime however it has been bond by prime to render it harmless to the fish.

Unlike most ammonia test kits on the market the Seachem test kit does not give false readings, it measures for both free ammonia (NH3), as well as total ammonia. (NH3 and NH4+)

Most test kits measure only the total ammonia, which is why one can get false readings when using products such as Prime etc. Free ammonia is the form that is toxic to fish, so it is the only form of ammonia that I have monitored closely when testing various water conditioners.

[ronrca]

Ron, as far as heavy metals, I'm only repeating what was stated to me by the CEO of Seachem, Dr. Greg Morin. Exactly what took place in your tank with the titanium rods I have no idea.

And Im just sharing my experience with Prime as well. Its the only 'stuff' I put in my water.

The test kits will still measure ammonia when using Prime however it has been bond by prime to render it harmless to the fish.

Unlike most ammonia test kits on the market the Seachem test kit does not give false readings, it measures for both free ammonia (NH3), as well as total ammonia. (NH3 and NH4+)

Most test kits measure only the total ammonia, which is why one can get false readings when using products such as Prime etc. Free ammonia is the form that is toxic to fish, so it is the only form of ammonia that I have monitored closely when testing various water conditioners.

As far as I understand, NH3 stays NH3 even when bond with Prime. NH4+ in higher ph water will alter to NH3. No matter which form of ammonia or ammonium, Prime will still bind the molecules to render them harmless to the fish however allowing the bio to consume it. So even though your using a test kit that measures both, Im under the impression that you will still get an reading even though Prime has bond it.