kh gone

[Baos]

I transfered a 30g from the fishbabysitters to a new 90g and added another filter thats claims to do 400g/hr. Anyways I think the charcoal took all my alkalinity away, I tested in at 0. after adding about 6-7 teaspoons of kent cichlid buffer for kh to a bucket, then ph downing the water and adding it to the tank. I now have 10 mg/l alkalinity. I kept my filters off for 3 hours. but.. I'm a bit scared the filter could take the new alkalinity out or something else is causing the water to be different.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Baos

[firestorm]

What kind of water are you using? And what is the normal range for the water you use. I don't think the charcoal usually lowers the KH at all, it usually is helpful in absorbing medications and other substances in the water. Did you use anything from the old tank in the new tank to help cycle it? It seems strange to me that any water source can have a hardness that low, without using RO water. Why do you use the buffers? If you can give any info on this and what your water parameters are like from your source of water, it might be very helpful on us being able to help more. Thanks

[FrogFan23]

I'm by no means an expert, but in my experience there are lots of things that can consume your KH. To the best of my knowledge, charcoal does NOT affect KH. However, live plants will consume KH from the water. Nitrifying bacteria will also consume KH, particularly while the colonies are establishing themselves (i.e., cycling the tank). Some also theorize that snails & other crustaceans will draw calcium from the water to build their shells & exoskeletons (KH measures calcium carbonate levels). An overstocked tank will also deplete KH, probably as a result of high nitrate levels (which can make water acidic) and resultant increase in bacterial activity.

That's one of the reasons why it is so important to do regular water changes. It's one of the best ways to replenish your carbonate hardness.

You can also use baking soda to boost KH levels. Be careful when using any KH additive, however. These products also tend to increase your pH. KH & pH go hand-in-hand. You want to make the change gradually otherwise you could cause your fish to go into pH shock.

Ten degrees is exceptionally high. For my shrimps & amphibians, I generally try to keep the KH around 6 - 7 degrees. At 10 degrees, your pH must be quite alkaline.

Firestorm also raise a valid point. If you are using distilled or RO water to start with, your KH will be zero as neither of these water "types" have any hardness. Have you tested your tap water's KH level?

Edited June 12, 2008 by FrogFan23

[patrick]

KH is like a PH buffer and once you reach 0 the PH will drop rapidly. Just like mentioned earlier ammonia, nitrite and nitrate (acids) will deplete the KH. The KH level itself has very low impact on fish (GH is different), but if you don't want high PH then you should keep it down. Keeping it too low is risky as your PH will be very unstable. You should try and maintain a KH of 3-4 which should park your a PH around 7. Baking soda alone can only bring the PH up to 8.3.

Our well water has a KH of 38 right from the tap and my fish are thriving. Mind you it's africans...

[Baos]

My water is 60% ro water, 40% tap water(70 to 80 mg/l kh). I also used all the water from their 30g tank. so only 60g is new water. I keep my ph at 6.4. earlier today it hit 7.0 ph and with adding about half the container of kent cichlid buffer(and ph downing the mixture in a bucket) my water has hit 6.8 ph which might not be bad as my fish were definitely experiencing some water quality problems before that point. I kept the charcoal filters off for about 4 hours after adding my mix. my kh is currently 30mg/l My hardness is at 80 now, was at 60 before(which I prefer). So far no losses and not a huge amount of rubbing anymore. I also double dosed with prime for safety's sake.

I also used large rocks that were in the bottom of the 30g and it's old filter the emperor just below the 400. The biowheel didn't dry out either.

My live plants which aren't many is just a small floating plant, some bamboo, and lots of java moss.

Edited June 12, 2008 by Baos

[FrogFan23]

The 60% r/o water could definitely be a factor. Reverse Osmosis removes all the hardness from the water, so its no surprise that your KH is less than half of the total alkalinity of the tap water. It looks to me like you are trying to keep you water relatively soft. Not a problem but it just means that your pH will be less stable and you will likely have to monitor your KH more closely.

(FYI - my tap water is typically 140 - 160 mg/L GH and 6 - 7 degrees KH.)

Happy to hear that your fish are doing okay ...

[Baos]

The fish are doing great... really great. but... after a crap load of kent cichlid buffer, I again have 0 kh. the test that should start blue, is starting yellow. I'm going to take my water to big al's and have them test it. I'm done adding stuff to my water at this point as it only seems to stress the fish. I am considering some water changes. oh, and a side note, now that I again have 0kh, my water is crystal clear. I also added extra ammonia remover crystals last night. My ph down that I use is real clear, it's a pond product and I use a very small scoop(1ml in diameter) aquatic bio science www.aquaticbioscience.com . It was recommended by the family pet store in Sherwood park for discus water. I don't keep discus yet, thank god.

[Vallisneria]

Why do you need to use RO? Usually tap water is ok unless you are on a well or something.

[Baos]

originally for breeding blue rams. I have been told that soft water is better for egg layers. I've had them lay eggs several times but never get anything to hatch. Eventually I'll attempt this again. It's also the same recipe as the discus keeper in Sherwood park. btw the exact link of my ph down http://www.realclearproducts.com/Lwrsphprodspecs.htm

[Baos]

I decided to try an experiment. 2 buckets, one regular untreated tap water, the second only my usual amount of real clear ph down to reach 6.4. NO OTHER ADDITIVES NO RO ADDED. After aproximately 10 hours the tap water bucket reads at 80mg/l kh, while the ph down bucket reads at 50mg/l kh. I'll continue this experiment and see if it'll drop all the way to 0 in this state. I'm thinking this product must either mask the kh, or control alkalinity on it's own somehow.

Edited June 14, 2008 by Baos

[byte]

From reading about planted tanks and CO2, I thought the kH, pH, and CO2 are all related so if the pH drops, so must the kH. But buffers will screw up the relationship between pH and Kh. One way to lower your pH would be the addition of CO2 and plants. Most planted tanks like to run about 1.0 lower pH at 30ppm of C02 (from 8.1 to 7.0 pH in my case)

This might help:

Measuring CO2 levels in a Planted Tank.

IMO, it is better to pick fish that suit your water than try to adjust the water with buffers every time you do a water change.

[Baos]

The fish are doing fine now. I've adjusted for a little more tap water to my equation. And thanks to my new ro machine, water changes are faster. As for finding fish that suits your own tap water... Well what would be the fun in that. Without the challenge of trying to adjust to their home environment, trying to breed them, and keeping a tank as alien as possible... well it wouldn't be a challenge. I'd own the same fish as everyone else which isn't really that interesting.