compatibility issues

[DatFishySmell]

Hi,

We’re newbie’s to the world of cichlids, and hope to seek some advice from the experts regarding our tank situation.

We were given a used 50gal aquarium with cichlids from one of our friends who since moved out of the country. After doing a bunch of research and trying to get as much info as we can, I’m having some doubt with regards to the compatibility of our cichlids. As it seems like a very odd combination:

Tank: 50Gal, about 4foot long.

Occupants:

2 Salvini’s, about 5-6” long. I believe these are South American cichlids.

1 Electric blue, about 6” long.

1 Red Jewl 3”

1 Electric Yellow about 4”

1 Red Empress about 3”

1 Red Zebra about 3”

1 unkown cichlid about 3”

1 Pleco (black with yellow spots) possibly an L18, and he’s about 3”

So the issue we face is the aggression of the 3 larger fishes :boxer: . The Salvini twins as we call them, were constantly after the African cichlids, and the electric blue is constantly after the smaller Africans. They all have plenty of hiding spots, and as a result the smaller cichlids seldom come out. We placed a divider in the tank and placed the smaller guy’s (including Pleco) on one side and the 3 larger fishes on the other side.

The smaller guy’s all 3 – 4” all get along and swim around and are very active. But now the aggression of the Salvini’s are focused on the Electric Blue on the other side of the tank. So I’m not sure if we’ve made the situation worse? Should I just remove the divider for now?

The best solution is probably to get rid of the Salvini twins? I'm thinking it may be harder to get rid of the Salvinis b/c their adults?

Should I also get rid of the electric blue as well and start over with the smaller cichlids so the aquarium is a little more peaceful?

This is a very addicting hobby, so we’re already making plans to purchase a bigger tank (90- 120gal) towards the summer after we’ve gotten a bit more experience and hopefully get a better start.

Thanks for any advice you can give us.

[jvision]

I would try to unload the Salvini's - post them in the buy/sell forum, and you should get some action. Everything else in there should be fine for a while.

[Lana Bollers]

I agree with Jason.

When obtaining cichlids one rule of thumb is to not mix the lakes.

So if you are after Malawi cichlids, stay away from victorian... that sort of thing, but what the previous owner has done is mixed countries...LOL... If you wanted you could obtain a larger tank now, some good deals on here and kijiji... just look for them. Get that tank cycled, put your african's in the larger tank and if you like your twins, keep them in the smaller tank...

You maybe able to add some more south american's with the twins.

Just another option.

[roypark05]

The divider was a mistake IMO due to the fact that your blue guy is alone with the Salvinis. I'd take the divider out for sure, and I think that honestly you could leave things the way they are. The toughest fish you have in there (eventhough you may not realize) is probably the Jewel. After things are mixed up in the tank, everyone needs to find their own "niche" and that can include some bullying and maybe even some scrapping but usually things will even themselves out. I allow a little scrapping in my tanks unless it looks like one fish is totally out-matched. I never let anyone gey hurt but if it's just some chasing, fish rarely get hurt from that.

A lot of people say not to mix cichlids but I've been very successful with that in the past. I was going for a Malawi tank in my 75 gallon, but I ended up putting a breeding pair of Jewels, a Frontosa and even now a Convict in there. I also have a 10" pleco. Everything is great in my tank.

[DatFishySmell]

I think your right. ElectricBlue is looking a little beat up, so kind of suspected putting the divider was a bad move. I'll take it out tonight :boxed:

First things first, though I’ll try and unload the Salvini’s as it's not working out.

But I may also look at unloading the Electric Blue since he seems to be too big a fish for the smaller guy’s to handle.

I was originally set on buying new, but I’ve seen a few good deals on used larger tank (90 – 120gal). Is there anything specific I would need to look for in a Used Tank, besides leaks?

So, if we were able to start over, I would like to build around 3 Frontosa’s (1M/2F). If I get them while there small 3-4”, so everyone is equal in terms of size. Would the other fish I have now stand a chance with the Fronts once they all mature?

Based on what I’ve read, the Fronts seem to be gentle giants.

[Lana Bollers]

I have blue moorii dolphins, kipili fronts and had some deep water haps together and they did very well together, now I have kind of a hines 57 mixture, one very large moorii dolphin, one male lemon jake, one female lemon jake, three electric yellows and one electric blue male. All so far have been getting along great. They range in size from about 2" to 8".

But I loved it when I had the first setup...

[rayfong]

I think your right. ElectricBlue is looking a little beat up, so kind of suspected putting the divider was a bad move. I'll take it out tonight :boxed:

First things first, though I’ll try and unload the Salvini’s as it's not working out.

But I may also look at unloading the Electric Blue since he seems to be too big a fish for the smaller guy’s to handle.

I was originally set on buying new, but I’ve seen a few good deals on used larger tank (90 – 120gal). Is there anything specific I would need to look for in a Used Tank, besides leaks?

So, if we were able to start over, I would like to build around 3 Frontosa’s (1M/2F). If I get them while there small 3-4”, so everyone is equal in terms of size. Would the other fish I have now stand a chance with the Fronts once they all mature?

Based on what I’ve read, the Fronts seem to be gentle giants.

Some questions to ask would probably be when was the last time it held water and then check the silicon. Worst thing that can happen is you have to redo the silicon and Sam Chicklets wrote a nice article on siliconing.

Article on relining your tank

[firestorm]

My best guess as well is that the twins were a pair. Does one have a really red belly, and the other not so much? Female salvini's get a really red belly especially when getting ready to spawn. I have only a pair of convicts in with my african cichlids now, but only because I know they don't grow very large in size. From my experience, CA cichlids tend to be tougher on african cichlids than africans are on them. Mainly because they get so large and they get really big mouths with teeth.

Frontosas should be mixed with less aggressive fish, many types of Haps will do well with them, along with other fish from lake Tanganyika. I wouldn't put them with highly aggressive fish, because they are more gentle themselves. I wouldn't mix them with fish from CA/SA. For frontosas the minimum tank I would probably put them in is a 100 gallon. They can grow fairly large, if you want some helpful tips on them ask Harold (fairdeal), as he has a few large tanks with fronts.

I have basically come down to mixing only fish that come from the same areas or lakes. If wanting tangs, I suggest going with an all tang tank, or if wanting vics or malawi's, go with only those types. The electric blue should do fine in the tank once you remove the salvini's. Yes they will sometimes pick on smaller mbuna, but you have enough smaller cichlids in there that he won't always be picking on the same one. Although I find electric blues seem to always have something against electric yellows, and they seem to get picked on most by the EB's out of other fish. I really think you should remove the salvini's, and the rest should do fine.

[DatFishySmell]

My best guess as well is that the twins were a pair. Does one have a really red belly, and the other not so much?

I find electric blues seem to always have something against electric yellows, and they seem to get picked on most by the EB's out of other fish. I really think you should remove the salvini's, and the rest should do fine.

Yes, the bigger Salvini does have more red on the belly. So I could possibly have a male & female.

So yesterday I took down the divider and rearranged the tank, so the smaller fishes have more hiding spots.

But tonight was the first time I've ever seen the Electric Yellow (4") take on the Electric Blue (6"). A few times it seemed like the EY was going to put the EB in it's place. But the EB would keep coming back at the EY, a few times locking jaws. One of the Salvini's on occasion stepped in to break up the fight. But as soon as the Salvini went back to his spot, the fight would start over again. This last for about 15min.

Do you guy's just let the cichlids duke it out? :boxer: Or do you step in and break up the fight up?

[firestorm]

I usually let them duke it out unless someone is getting brutaly injured. When you remove the salvini's, you might want to see about getting more mbuna in the tank, since the more fish the less aggression there seems to be, and you shoulnd't have to worry about anyone getting killed. I have both a 90 and a 75 stocked full of lake malawi cichlids, haven't lost a fish in months since I have done so. But you will want to keep good filtration and do weekly water changes. I told you EB's somehow have grudges against EY's lol. I have seen it in more than just my fish.

And watch out if those salvinis decide to breed, considering you have a m/f. The tank isn't all that large to begin with, so somebody might end up killed or badly injured. My salvinis when they bred took up at least 1/4 of my 90 gallon tank, and they were only 5" and 3". Oh and salvini's are central americans. I find most central american species to be quite aggressive, especially compared to SA's. Which is why my 5 CA's are all in a 120, nicely spread out.........for now

Edited February 4, 2009 by firestorm

[roypark05]

I have a mpimbwe frontosa between 6 and 7 inches. He's the biggest guy in the tank, and the aggression from my mbuna and jewels rubs off on him. For awhile my 5 inch jewel was picking on him pretty bad. If you get 3 to 4 inch fronts they might get picked on by the jewels or mbuna you have. I had a 1.5 inch burundi frontosa that got bullied by a same sized yellow lab. Small frontosas tend to be a bit weak.

But then again some times things don't happen the same despite the circumstances being the same. So long as your fish are similarly sized, nothing should go too wrong. Having said that, there are a lot of exceptions, and I find experimenting very interesting and rewarding. Some fish will surprise you.

Like I said before, I allow a little bit of fighting in the tanks I keep. It's just about unavoidable with cichlids anyway. So long as none of them are completely outmatched. I've had to remove fish before (peacocks are bad for this, but the wife keeps buying them anyway lol) but some times one fish will become the tank b*tch pretty much and everyone takes their frustrations out on that one fish.

[DatFishySmell]

A quick update. I've since gotten rid of my Electric Blue as I was still convinced he was causing most of the stress in the tank for the smaller africians. Everything seems to have settled down.

The Salvini's claimed territory to a large cave I built for them, and will stick their head out when ever any of the africians swim to close. They spend most of their time in there, possibly spawning

When one of the Salvini's do go out for a swim, the africians move out of the way and the salvini's seem to ignore them. I'll see how things go for the next couple of weeks (fingers crossed) and hopefully I can add a Red Jewel and another Red Zebra of similiar size to the mix.

Unfortunately my dream of having a Frontosa will have to waite until I can get a much bigger tank. But on that note, I found out the tank we have is actually a 75 gal. :thumbs:

Thanks everyone for your help, putting up the divider was definately a big mistake. If things don't work out with the Salvini's, I'll probably find them a new home.

Edited February 9, 2009 by DatFishySmell

[roypark05]

Good to hear everything worked out. The slightest change some times can fix things (or make it worse lol). I have a few baby jewels just starting to get some colour, and one of them can be yours if you want (won't be ready for another month or so). Red Zebras are typically easy to find and are awesome fish. There are actually really nice ones at the wal mart in the south edmonton common for like 4 bucks.

[DatFishySmell]

I'd take you up on the offer Roy, unfortunately I'm down in Calgary.

Everythings still going well. Although I did notice some unusual behaviour with the Salvini's, they'll circle each other in the cave and lip-lock for quite a bit. Not sure what's going on, but their lips are looking a little battered.

[roypark05]

I'd take you up on the offer Roy, unfortunately I'm down in Calgary.

Everythings still going well. Although I did notice some unusual behaviour with the Salvini's, they'll circle each other in the cave and lip-lock for quite a bit. Not sure what's going on, but their lips are looking a little battered.

Maybe they're spawning or getting ready to spawn. Some times cichlids get pretty aggressive with each other come spawning time. Or maybe they're two males or two females battling for supremacy.