Lost when it comes to Co2

[CursiveDuck]

So I just recently picked up my filters for my 180, and now I have to start wondering about the planting game. I've noticed some pretty clever set ups when its comes to starting a planted tank and I'm not exactly sure where to start, but I want to ensure I have everything from the get go before I start this bad boy up. My main question is when it comes to co2 and what I should be looking for, I'm wondering if a DIY system using two or three pop bottles might be my cheapest method of going about this, or would buying an actual co2 system pay for itself in time saving measures and in cost. The tank itself will be housing my bichir eels and a large swimmer, but I really want to run a fairly heavily planted tank. Also when it comes to actually buying a co2 system, where do I even start? This whole thing eludes me :P. (Also on a side note, what substrate would be best used for this tank, I've noticed some people using miracle grow and then putting a nice sand substrate over it and that looked really classy and nice, and would work great as my eels need a sandy or glass bottom.)

Any help is great help

Edited November 29, 2010 by CursiveDuck

[Jaykit]

I highly recommend surfing around the web and reading all that you can about co2 and planted tanks before you get too far into this. You'll want to make sure that you've got enough light over your tank to make co2 worth while, also if your adding co2 then you also will want to look into fertilizers as your plants are going to grow at a faster rate and use up all the nutrients in your tank.

For Co2, I think pressurized would be the only way to go on a 180 gallon tank. On my 180 gallon planted tank I have 1 - 10lb tank or you could even do 2 - 5lb tanks. I have the regulator off the tank, then a splitter (T connection), and then a needle valve on each side. Then each airline runs to a mini filter (placed near the bottom of the tank) that works amazing as a cheap diffuser and really chops up the bubbles. I have both of "diffusers" located right below my 2 canister filter outputs to help circulate the co2 even more, which are located at about 6-8" from either side wall.

I have it set-up so that the co2 comes on with my first bank of lights so that 1 hour later when the rest kick on there is enough co2 in the system to be effective. And then the co2 turns off when the main lights do so that for the last hour the remaining co2 gets used up.

As for substrate i went to home depot and got 3 bags of play sand, washed it and filled the bottom. Its about 1 1/2"ish deep with a slight slope from front to back.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Jaykit

[jvision]

I agree with Jaykit, learn as much as you can before getting too far ahead. As far as sourcing, welding supply shops are generally the most cost effective, but they have no idea what you are doing, so you'd need to know everything you need. LFS and Online Fish stores have kits that are all that you need, but are generally $100+ more than what you can get at the welding shop; however, all of the guesswork is gone.

I like Play Sand for a substrate b/c it's cheap and looks natural, and I keep quite a few Corys and other cats, so it's great for them to root around. If you want something a little more coarse, check out sandblasting suppliers like SIL or Manus Abrassives for lots of options at a great price. I've used SIL8 and SIL9, and recently crushed Garnet from Manus.

[werner]

Pressurized CO₂ Primer

[CursiveDuck]

Thank you so much werner for that link lol, it has helped me to understand things a little better lol. So I was wondering could I get away with having a decent co2 system if from that list I get these:

manifold

canister

regulator

needle valve

brass check valve

polyurethane tubing

bubble counter

bubble ladder

diffuser

Also if I could cut out any of these without sacrificing to much and cutting costs lots, any suggestions would be great. Also wondering what a system like that would roughly run me?

[gBOYsc2]

Hi CursiveDuck. I took the plunge into pressurized CO2 at the beginning of this year myself. It was the best investment I have ever made. I think pressurized is definitely the way to go for a 180g! In the beginning I was so lost like you. All the parts are so foreign I didn't even know what anything was and what anything was for. It really just takes some fishin around reading and researching. I found this particular link very helpful in getting me setup and helping me understand what each part is for.

Reading the names just didn't do it for me. I needed to see the parts and how they all connect.

If you are planning on pressurized CO2 you are going to want sufficient lighting as well as fertilization. I think the lighting is fairly straight forward unless you are into the very specifics of it. It's all quite a bit confusing to me if you get too deep into it lol so I like to just keep it simple. Your 2 best options I believe are T5 High Output and Compact Flourescent. Maybe even Metal Halide will be a good option for such a large tank. T5HO are said to use less energy and produce less heat with a more intense light. I have used both but I find CF's generate way too much heat. As for substrates there are many many producs on the market. Personally I have used Eco Complete and Flourite in the past with success. There are aslo many softer granule substrates like the ADA style ones, but it is reported that it falls apart after a few years which is not too appealing to me. Also it is not readily avialabe in Canada and quite pricey with shipping and all. I think for a 180 that would be a really expensive option. If you have lots of time and patience you might want to look into how to make mineralized top soil(don't quote me but I think you can get away with fertilizing the water column for quite some time with this method as well). You should be able to come up with TONS of resources if you just type that into google.

As for fertilization you might want to do some reasearch on Estimative Index method. It is probably your cheapest and easiest option. I got a few years worth of dry fertilizers for around 30 dollars. As opposed to paying 30 dollars for the 2 bottles of the seachem liquid fertilizers(of which you need about 5 different bottles) which will only last a couple months on a 50g tank. You can order them now from Aqua Flora Nurseries which is based in BC, or you can order them from aquariumfertilizer.com which is where I got mine.

I ordered most of my co2 parts from Green Leaf Aquariums. In fact I got everything from there except for my regulator. I decided to use the Milwaukee MA-957 regulator. If money isn't an issue I recommend going with something top notch. The solenoid on the regulator is cheap-o and busted within 2 days so now I am just running constant co2 into the aquarium. This isn't that much of a problem because I have a powerhead aimed at the surface to aerate the water really well, but it would be nice to have my dinky 5lb tank last twice as long as it does.

As for your list of parts everything is good except I don't have a manifold(don't even know that that is). I also don't have a bubble ladder. Also I think many pre built regulators come with a needle valve and a bubble counter attached. If money isn't an issue I highly recommend ordering from Green Leaf Aquariums. They supply everything including shiny new CO2 tanks and it was hassle free for me. You may also want to invenst in a drop checker. These handly little units will measure the concentration of CO2 in the water and let you know if there is too much or too little. I went with the double drop checker from CalAqua Labs which has a reference solution indicator as well, instead of comparing it to a colored piece of paper. I feel I can get a more accurate reading this way as a piece of paper and liquid in a glass bubble underwater looks a totally different color then a piece of paper. Kind of like the test kits. I never really know lol. You can see these on the GLA website.

The cost for my setup was as follows:

5 lb Cylinder $70

Regulator $150ish (which comes with bubble counter and needle valve)

Tubing $10

Check Valve $10

Diffuser $25

Double Drop Checker $50

All that plus shipping/handling and duties.

I can't remember shipping fees and stuff but all together I think it costed me somewhere around $400. Only thing I would recommend getting a better regulator then the Milwaukee one. I think the investment is worth it. A year or so down the road I will probably end up investing in a better regulator from GLA.

Hope this helps!

[jet_ran]

So I just recently picked up my filters for my 180, and now I have to start wondering about the planting game. I've noticed some pretty clever set ups when its comes to starting a planted tank and I'm not exactly sure where to start, but I want to ensure I have everything from the get go before I start this bad boy up. My main question is when it comes to co2 and what I should be looking for, I'm wondering if a DIY system using two or three pop bottles might be my cheapest method of going about this, or would buying an actual co2 system pay for itself in time saving measures and in cost. The tank itself will be housing my bichir eels and a large swimmer, but I really want to run a fairly heavily planted tank. Also when it comes to actually buying a co2 system, where do I even start? This whole thing eludes me :P. (Also on a side note, what substrate would be best used for this tank, I've noticed some people using miracle grow and then putting a nice sand substrate over it and that looked really classy and nice, and would work great as my eels need a sandy or glass bottom.)

Any help is great help

[jet_ran]

Hi. Check out this site. It helped me alot. www.aquatic-eden.com