Say Yes To Sump For Fresh Water Planted Aquariums?

[cainechow]

Why is it that for FW Planted it is often the case that we use canister or HOB filters and don't often hear of people using a sump?

I'm asking because I'm "this close" to giving up on my DIY canister build. And probably have everything I need to build a small sump for my 10G planted tank that is in DSM right now.

Sump Advantages:

• easy to clean mechanical filtration
  
• mostly easy to clean bio filtration?
  
• I don't have to spend any extra money
  
• I can throw my heater in the sump
  

Sump Disadvantages:

• I'd better make sure my pump can handle the line height
  
• Gassing off CO2 because of agitation at the sump
  

Canister Advantages:

• Little or no worries about pump ability to push water back up to tank
  
• Contained unit that doesn't take up much space
  
• Little to no gassing off inside the canister?
  

Canister Disadvantages:

• Costs in the range of $120.00 for a new one
  
• Pain to clean
  

Any other advantages/disadvantages of going sump vs. canister?

Edit: Updated topic title to be more positive

Edited June 11, 2012 by cainechow

[Sprucegruve]

i think thats about it.

maybe if your pump wont work to return the water from the sump consider getting a bigger pump i believe they are cheeper than $120 for a new canister.

but also talk to a planted tank guru about the co2 gassing off advantages/disadvangates for the canister/sump,because i dont know much about c02 yet.

im setting up my co2 in a month or so

[jvision]

If you're going to run CO2, you want as little agitation as possible to keep your CO2 from gassing off. Also, if your tank is going to be heavily planted right from te start, there is little need for biological filtration - the plants take care of all the ammonia/nitrate - so large bio area of a sump isn't really needed. A canister's return and intake are both below the water surface, so there can be 0 surface agitation, yet still provide excellent flow.

[ckmullin]

Don't worry about gassing off from agitation. (This word is loaded as it should be added with surface for proper context...ie surface agitation) At best point your filter head down so there is a bit but not much ripple on the water surface. The top surface being 100% still will cause garbage to just sit and then skim over.

the above is based on experience.

[cainechow]

Right. This is why agitation inside a sealed canister doesn't have gassing off. I guess if a sump setup isn't a wet/dry trickle type it wouldn't be as much of a worry.

[ckmullin]

I had a great opportunity to view jcgd's setup recently and was very impressed. Same sort of idea with your sump as he also had and it worked beautifully.

I would not be bothered nor worried about saving every little microbubble from gassing off...co2 is cheap and to some degree water movement @ the surface is a good thing.

(look @ the scum on ponds in nature that are dead still for proof)

hope it helps.

[cainechow]

Oh... one other advantage to sump is not having to create a perfect vacuum seal.... a disadvantage is you have to build a proper overflow

[jcgd]

Yes, I have a sump. You need to seal the wet dry so instead I run an open sump with a filter dock. The opening of the drain is submerged so there's no agitation whatsoever. My journal has a video showing my sump. It's not cleaned up, but you get the idea.

Every thread that starts with "why shouldn't you have a sump on a planted tank" reaffirms the myth for everyone who doesnt bother to read the thread. No offense meant, just saying its a damn hard myth to kill.

Edited June 11, 2012 by jcgd

[cainechow]

indeed.... I don't suppose I can go back to change the subject now.

jdgd, what do you love the most about running a sump setup?

[ckmullin]

topic titles can be changed @ any time.

[jcgd]

indeed.... I don't suppose I can go back to change the subject now.

jdgd, what do you love the most about running a sump setup?

Haha, thanks! Now it's like a cheer... Say yes to the sump!

I love everything about it. Two heaters... hidden. Dosers... hidden. Ph, temp probes... hidden. Wanna clean the media... one minute... done. Wanna add some charcole... and done. Want more surface area? Done. Want more volume? Done.

And the biggest one people miss is that they think they can spill more water with a sump. In reality, a sump can empty into the main tank if the drains all clog, and then you get the volume of the sump on the floor, minus whatever extra volume the display can hold. The other way to spill isn't really and issue unless you over fill the sump and the pump shuts down. The water can back flow overflowing the sump. But a well designed system will hold all the back flow.

A leaking cannister will drain the tank all the way to the intake tube. Which we usually place near the bottom of the tank.

The only downside to a sump is making sure it's co2 proof. And that can be solved with a design choice.

[jcgd]

Also, as far as agitation goes, you want as much rippling as is reasonable. It's the white water, or breaking of the water tension that is the enemy. I get this in my weir, but I do not mind. If you add co2 injected tank water to a jar, test the ph and then shake it up, it actually takes a bit of effort to gas off all the co2. Think what it take to flatten a pop. One or two shakes doesn't do it. You need to shake it vigorously for a few minute go get it nearly flat. Or leave it out for a day or two open.

A air bubbler is the most useless and worst thing you can put in a planted tank DURING THE DAY. It add very little oxygen and gets rid of lots of co2. At night you can use it to gas off co2 ONLY. Surface area gets you the oxygen, as oxygen is very difficult to diffuse into water.

[Jaykit]

I have never had a freshwater sump. However, I have seen people online that run opposite lighting... what I mean is that both the sump and the display tank are planted tanks. When the display tank is "daytime" the sump is "night" and vis versa. Something that I want to try at some point.