High Ammonia Edmonton Water Alert!

[RD.]

http://www.epcor.com/water/reports-edmonton/Pages/wq-daily.aspx?cid=1

According to EPCOR's analysis, in the period between Jan 09 - 15, the maximum chloramine residual in any Edmonton tap water was 2.07.

[Jayba]

Whenever there is melting and runoff creates turbitity , chlorine goes up. Happens in Red Deer like clockwork.

Red Deer quotes Combined Chlorine Residual which chloramine.

In times of poor Incoming water quality the injection of chlorine is raised as it is a very effective disenfectant. Red Deer mixes onsite. The ammonia then becomes the constant determining factor for chloramine production. This supports people complaining of odor and taste issues in times of run off.

This will not effect ammonia levels. It would on the other hand require more prime to neutralize the chlorine. But the wrong ammonia test kit would definitely mess with ones perception of what is really going on.

Can't speak for Edmonton as I have never worked in their water treatment plants.

[RD.]

Jay - the only amount of disinfectant that truly matters, is the level that leaves the plant and ultimately flows out of ones tap, which in RD is on average 2 mg/l chloramine.

That level of chloramine coming out of the tap doesn't go up & down due to seasonal fluctuations in turbidity, so there is never any need to increase ones level of water conditioner. What most consumers are actually smelling in the spring is the reaction between organics, and chlorine - not an increase in chlorine.

From the City of RD website.

Chlorine in the Spring - When water quality in the Red Deer River deteriorates, due to the annual runoff or from heavy rainfall or flooding events, higher doses of treatment chemicals, including chlorine, are required to clean the water.

After the treatment process is completed, a small amount of un-reacted chlorine, called residual chlorine, remains present in the water supply to protect against bacterial contamination in water mains, water storage tanks and in household plumbing. The amount of residual chlorine in the water leaving the water treatment plant is constant and is usually not detected by the consumer except in spring runoff when last years dead leaves and grasses have decayed and are carried into the river by snowmelt. Organic material from this surface runoff is difficult to completely remove from the water and while harmless, the small amount remaining can react with the residual chlorine and may impart an unpleasant musty/chlorine odour to the water. The consumer can conclude this to mean that if they can smell chlorine in the water, the City must have increased the dose. The City will have increased the dose in the treatment process, but the amount of residual chlorine in the finished water supply is actually still the same as it was before. It only becomes more noticeable when certain dissolved organics are also present.

Back in the day, when RD was treating the water with chlorine as the main disinfectant, different story. Chlorine levels went sky high in the spring, and during times of heavy rain, and the tap water looked like monkey piss - no way could it be used for drinking water, I could barely stand having a shower in it. But that was 20-30 yrs ago, long before any of the current upgrades took place at our water treatment facility.

As far as Edmonton tap water ...........

From the EPCOR link previously posted;

Chlorine, (Total Residual)

In EPCOR's distribution system, the total residual chlorine is composed entirely of chloramine. Chloramine is a disinfectant that results when chlorine is combined with ammonia. It is a much weaker disinfectant than free chlorine but it stays in water longer, is more stable in distribution systems, and can more effectively penetrate any film or deposit on a pipe to kill bacteria. Our approval sets limits of 0.5 - 2.5 mg/L for drinking water. EPCOR's treated water contains an average of 2.19 mg/L.

HTH

[425nm]

I don't see why they wouldn't use a sea hem kit. They're the cheapest mid range test kit, especially since they'd be paying wholesale price for them. Sure hope they're not using API or Haven to test peoples saltwater.

I was referring to check EPCOR for free ammonia in the tap water not chloramine levels.

[RD.]

I never said that they wouldn't use a Seachem MultiTest kit. That doesn't mean that their test results are fool-proof. The sensors must be handled, and read, in a certain manner, and they are only good for approx 12 months.

FYI - the exact same sensors used in the MultiTest kit, are used in Seachem's Ammonia Alert - so it's easy enough for anyone that's overly concerned to check their own tap water, or tank water after using Prime, Safe, etc.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/AmmoniaAlert.html

I doubt that EPCOR is going to show free ammonia levels for last week, or any week within this month so there's probably no point in looking.

In a water treatment system such as EPCOR's, where mono-chloramine is utilized as the preferred disinfectant, the mix & ratio of chlorine to ammonia is not only very critical, it is monitored 24/7 365 days of the year. In a system using chloramine, free ammonia should always be near zero, ideally below .05 mg/l. In todays modern facilities I personally cannot imagine that 1.0 NH3 would be found at the consumers end. In all my years of dealing with chloramine systems here in AB I have never once experienced such a thing, nor heard of such a thing taking place.

For those that are interested in understanding the chloramine process further, including the chlorine to ammonia nitrogen ratio, the following paper that was presented at the Western Canada Water and Wastewater Association in Edmonton, 2007,

explains it far better than I ever could.

http://www.appliedspectrometry.com/pubpdfs/188%20Edmonton%20Paper.pdf

HTH

[CursiveDuck]

Tuan the owner, nor torsten would take the time to send out the email if it wasn't worth a warning. There have been quite a few random die off come in after just regular water changes, and we've tested multiple times.

Edited January 18, 2013 by CursiveDuck

[CursiveDuck]

Both their water after and before preping it have been quite high. Its nothing to take into real concern now if you are using prime anyways. It's just a heads up for people with more sensitive fish to not chinsey up on your water conditioners or you may run into some issues. Though personally I'm always adding a little extra prime for the added benefits anyways.

[RD.]

Tuan the owner, nor torsten would take the time to send out the email if it wasn't worth warning you. I work there we use a multi test kit, it's API, sometimes others depends what we have, but they test free ammonia.

I believe that API's ammonia test kit for freshwater/marine is salicylate based, and the plain freshwater kit is Nessler based.

One can determine free ammonia if read immediately from the former, the latter will only read as total ammonia.

Either way, I would highly recommend that anyone that is concerned about ammonia levels in their tap water to test their own water with a kit that is specifically made to test for free ammonia, such as Seachem's MultiTest kit, or invest $10 in one of Seachem's Ammonia Alerts.

[beautylovetruth]

I used an API test kit for this test last night. Straight from my tap in west Edmonton. Initially it turned to 0.25ppm then after the 5 minute period, was at 0.5-1.0ppm.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here is the test I did for the other thread, on Dec 7, 2012:

Might have to invest in the Seachem's kit when I'm in need of a new one.

Either way, I'm glad this topic was brought up, it certainly helps to know what we could be dealing with.

Edited January 18, 2013 by beautylovetruth

[RD.]

0.5-1.0 ppm is quite the spread. Imagine if someone asked you what size of tank you were selling, and you told them that it was either a 50 gallon, or a 100 gallon - you weren't sure.

Honestly the best way to determine if there is an issue with "free" ammonia in ones system after performing a water change, is to test your tank water immediately after a water change, using a test kit that is designed to test for free ammonia, such as Seachem's MultiTest kit, or their little Ammonia Alert product which costs approx $10 and can be moved from tank to tank if needed. http://www.seachem.c...moniaAlert.html

As previously stated: I believe that API's ammonia test kit for freshwater/marine is salicylate based, and the plain freshwater kit is Nessler based. One can determine free ammonia if read immediately from the former, the latter will only read as total ammonia, if one is using reducing agents or ammonia binding agents. This would include Seachem Prime, Seachem Safe, Cloram-X, etc. It would NOT include any water conditioners that are based on sodium thiosulfate, as they will not reduce or bind free ammonia, even if they state that they will remove chloramine. They will not - at best all they will do is break the chlorine/ammonia bond, leaving you with a small ammonia spike after each water change. It's easy to blame the tap water, if you're using a product that was not designed to reduce free ammonia, and your tap water contains ammonia.

In other words, if your API test kit is Nessler based, then your readings are for total ammonia (NH3 + NH4), not free ammonia. (NH3) If it is Salicylate based, for free ammonia you must take the reading immediately after mixing.

Obviously this will also be affected by not only the type of water conditioner that one uses, but also how much one uses. In Edmonton, you should be treating for 2 mg/l chloramine, which should result in reducing any/all free ammonia that is present in your tap water.

HTH

Edited January 18, 2013 by RD.

[beautylovetruth]

Thanks RD, you're right that the difference between .5-1.0 is huge. My mistake on putting in the range. It was a bit darker than .5 but not dark enough to be 1.0. The shadowing in the picture doesn't help the case.

I'll have to check what the bottles say when I get home. Interesting Ammonia Alert product, next time I'm at my LFS I'll look for it.

[gBOYsc2]

If it's coming from Aquarium Central I would trust their advice. I don't think it really matters what test kit they are using. Tuan is no n00b.

[RD.]

I'm not exactly a noob, either.

But hey, people are free to believe whatever they want, by whomever they want. I wasn't saying that AC's info wasn't valid, I was simply questioning as to exactly how they concluded that Edmonton water contained 1ppm free ammonia, if in fact it even was free ammonia. There's ammonia, and then there's ammonia .........