cainechow Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 The issue is if the clay is calcium based ( desirable) or sodium based (meh). And of course the MSDS doesn't specify. Unless you have more info on Optisorb than I've found so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainechow Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 Hmmm. I was confused. It is bentonite that is calcium or sodium based. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khobbs Posted September 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 You guys are speaking a totally different language. I mean if I can grow plants with out a co2 system great. But if I have to start looking up msds and bentonite and everything else.. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 You guys are speaking a totally different language. I mean if I can grow plants with out a co2 system great. But if I have to start looking up msds and bentonite and everything else.. lol You're right. A substrate discussion was inserted into your co2 topic. As with any topic the user can decide as much or little of the fine print to read. Going as far as viewing MSDS or CEC properties of various materials of course isn't needed but it is a very interesting read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cainechow Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 Sorry about the super nerd takeover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekbottom Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 lol to the super nerd takeover!!! Check out Moltan.com That's the manufacturer and they have all the MSDS listed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shambhalove_ Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hello! first post here!! You can grow lots of things without CO2 and using a simple substrate like sand. Fertilizers are important though Here's my 75 gallon (low light / no CO2) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
425nm Posted November 7, 2013 Report Share Posted November 7, 2013 Where is everyone getting potting mix that doesn't have per/vermiculite? I haven't been able to find any without it. I've just been mixing peat moss with glacial rock dust and some other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted November 8, 2013 Report Share Posted November 8, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 18, 2016 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
425nm Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 Where is everyone getting potting mix that doesn't have per/vermiculite? I haven't been able to find any without it. I've just been mixing peat moss with glacial rock dust and some other things. Perlite and vermiculite are both very high in cec which is a good thing..so those things are good to have. btw don't use potting soil...use earthworm castings. BTW, don't use peat moss in any great quantity as a sub-substrate!! They do indeed have CEC however they float do they not? The main reason I want to avoid them. What's wrong with using peat moss? It'll drop the substrates pH but lower pH means greater bio-avaibility for several nutrients including iron. I mix it with aragonite sand which will gradually dissolve at the lower pH providing calcium. Granted its a bit of an experiment I'm running but thus far (only a month whiich I know is not telling but a start) all my plants are growing and my fish aren't dead or stressed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckmullin Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 (edited) . Edited September 18, 2016 by ckmullin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
425nm Posted November 9, 2013 Report Share Posted November 9, 2013 With ANY soil based substrate it is only a base layer. You must always cap with something. I've got between 2 and 3 inches of gravel as a top cap. You don't want to add much in the way of organics but rather inert substances that hold nutrient, you don't need items to rot in the tank. Peat moss isn't too heavy on organic material. Its going to have far less organic material than earth worm castings. In either case used in the correct proportion either will benefit plants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisher Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Try adding fish first for a month then plants :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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