Fast Cycling?

[Vimmer]

Ok so came home from Calgary with a bunch more goodies and thinking ahead to fry time I decided to get 4th tank up and running. This time I've decided to try and do things right and used Fluval shrimp stratum substrate with a black sand cap. Once it is completely cycled this will be the shrimp tank for the cherries and will be re-working existing tank using a real substrate rather than just gravel.

Moved some planted/stem plants(wysteria, red ludwigia and amazon sword) from existing tank along with a clay shelter with few very small java fern rhizomes. When ready will be also moving marimo moss ball and few good sized clumps of flame moss. Also used water removed from other three existing tanks, 36g BF, 20g long and standard 10g, for about 2/3 of the tank and new conditioned water for other third.

This is a new filter and I dosed with nutrafin cycle bacteria supplement as if setting up whole new tank, 20ml day 1, 10ml day 2 and 3. Added no other ammonia or fish food. No fauna purposefully added but have spotted one small pond snail that hitched a ride.

Day 2/ 24hr test results- NH3- 0.25ppm, NO2 - 0ppm, NO3 - 10ppm I attributed nitrates to used water

Day 3/ 48hr results - NH3 - 0.25ppm, NO2 - 0ppm, NO3 - 20ppm

Day 4/72hr results - NH3 - trace, NO2 - 0ppm. NO3 - 30ppm did a 10%WC

Is this tank really cycling this fast because of all the bacteria seeded even with a brand new filter?

And yes I have MTS bad considerring this all started in August with the 10g originally for my daughter. Hey she still feeds them and helps with the water changes.

Edited March 7, 2015 by Vimmer

[zoopkamol]

Could be a mini cycle. Only way i know to insta cycle is to use some media from other tanks (pot scrubbers. Ceramic rings. Sponges) imo water just wouldn't cut it and all the magic bs bacteria in the bottle is just that bs.. just my 2.

Also MTS eventually gets most of us...be glad your MTS is smaller sized tanks... 180 150 140 90 40B 36BF 20... equals 1 day a week in mantience usually a sat or sun.

[Vimmer]

That's what I was thinking; that it was happening too fast. Seeing test results in couple days that I wouldn't expect for a week but wondered if combination of using water and more importantly the plants and that clay decoration(lots of ridges to hold bacteria) might have sped it up. Will be keeping an eye on results and being slow and cautious of what I introduce if it is showing cycled. Was still a trace of NH3 at 72 hr mark so not done yet but hit that mark before I thought it would. Ottos and a couple MTS snails will be test pilots before I risk the shrimp and the rest of the snails. Especially since at least two of the MTS snails I got must have been preggo. Already spotted way smaller than I placed in two out of three tanks and hasn't even been a week.

[jumpsmasher]

While I have never done this myself I believe you can add ammonia to help determine if it is cycled.

If it is the ammonia is consumed / converted to nitrites and than nitrates. You should see a slight nitrates spike and then it start dropping.

When I redid a tank with fluval statrum using cycled filters and media, the ammonia and nitrites were negligible but nitrates remained fairly high for a few weeks.

[zoopkamol]

Ya used ammonia for my first tank to cycle it then rest i just stole some media out of filters. Once 1 tank is cycled the new additions are easy peasy. All my tanks are understocked so bioload is low for most part. Patience is key in this hobby.

[uwish]

While I am not sure in your case because I have no experience with that type of cycle bacteria I am surprised at the response of some members. http://www.drtimsaquatics.com

Do some reading on his nitrifying bacteria, I read his phd thesis on his bacterial supplement and was so impressed I used it to seed my saltwater tank when I stood it up almost 2 years ago.

I know why people are skeptical because the common cycle additives were not using the right nitrifying bacteria, but that was a decade ago. There has been significant progress in that regard since then.

In short bottled bacteria is not 'bunk' or witchcraft, I would ask members to read first before stating otherwise.

Edited March 8, 2015 by uwish

[zoopkamol]

Still doesn't change my opinion on bottles of useless bacteria. As bacteria requires oxygen to survive and i am sure oxygen can not go through a sealed plastic bottle thus killing the bacteria as bottle sits on a shelf.

[RD.]

There are most definitely "bacteria in a bottle" products that work. Dr. Tim's for one. Another is Seachem Stability. My personal experience with Seachem Stability is that I had to use twice the recommended dose, but otherwise it did perform exactly as advertised.

As far as Nutrafin/Hagen Cycle ...........

I'm personally not a big fan of Nutrafin products, even less of one of their product Cycle after reading this report a few yrs back.

In the following study performed in 2008 and published in the Canadian Journal of Microbiology, researchers found some rather alarming evidence of potential pathogenic bacteria in a product marketed by one of the aquatic industry giants, Hagen.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/pdf/10.1139/W08-015

Abstract

Two commercial products, Biotize and Cycle, containing bacteria as an active ingredient were characterized for species identification and batch-to-batch variation by denaturing gradient gel electrophoresis (DGGE), total cellular fatty acid analysis (FAA), and a taxonomic DNA microarray. DGGE was useful at assessing the stability of consortia in different batches, and cluster analysis differentiated each batch even when only slight differences in species composition were observed. DGGE, FAA, and DNA microarray results indicated little batch-to-batch variation in Biotize and some batch variation in Cycle. The 3 methods agreed well with species identification in Biotize but generated conflicting results in the species composition of Cycle. This multi-method approach was useful in determining if the observed bacterial species present in the products matched the expected species composition

Forty-two different bacterial isolates were obtained from Cycle through nonspecific plating. FAA identified 21 different isolates (Table 3), including 7 Bacillus species, 3 Mycobacterium species, 5 Pseudomonas species, Anthrobacter viscosus, Brevibacillus parabrevis/B. megaterium, Panibacillus macerans, Rhodococcus sp., Rhodobacter sphaeroides, Sphyngopyxis macrogoltabida, Variovax paradoxus, and Xanthobacter flavus. All of bacterial species identified in Cycle were not listed by the manufacturer. Bacteria such as Nitrosomonas species were not detected due to the unsuitable culturing conditions used. Mycobacterium fortuitum, Mycobacterium chelonea, Mycobacterium smegmatis, B. cereus, and Pseudomonas aeruginosa identified in Cycle are considered opportunistic pathogens.




Fungal isolates were successfully cultured on RBC plates for all batches of Cycle. These isolates were identified as Rhizopus sp. and Aspergillus sp. The fungal and opportunistic pathogenic bacterial species identified in Cycle may have been contaminants based on the product’s label, claiming it contained only nonpathogenic bacteria. These species could have resulted from either impure product starter cultures, contamination in the manufacturing process, or nondefinitive taxonomic identifications.

Edited March 8, 2015 by RD.

[RD.]

FYI - bacteria in a bottle can remain in a dormant phase for many months ........

Some bacteria in nature can remain in a dormant spore phase for "years", surviving drought, sub zero freezing temps, etc.

Edited March 8, 2015 by RD.

[uwish]

for a quick reference...