german blue ram deaths

[neely]

i HAD 3 of these fish (probably 1.5" to 1.75") living together with a handful of some very small (under an inch) mbuna and haps in a 10 gallon. the water temp was about 80 and i did small W/C's every couple of days. this was my first go at these fish and so far has not been so great. I have 1 left and would like to see him live. The others had no visible signs of being roughed up nor any visible abnormalities. Just found them dead. any info would be great.

[Moogled]

German Blue Rams sometimes die without reason, that's just the way it is. I believe it's because they're very fragile and are notorious for dying randomly.

Rams also seem susceptible to and/or frequently carry intestinal parasites, which often causes them to appear healthy and then suddenly die, although I've never had this problem in the 3 weeks I've kept my Rams.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Moogled

[syno321]

I've had German blue Rams off and on ever since I first imported them from Germany in the early 1990's. In my extensive experience with this species, the last word I would use to describe them would be delicate. The fry are definitely a challenge to raise, but just try to stop a pair from spawning. I've kept and spawned them in all water conditions and so I don't think that the water is your problem. Quite often fish from different water environments do not recognize aggression and threats from others mixed in with them in our tanks until it is too late. Despite the small stature of the co-habitants you are housing your rams with, they are still very aggressive species that in my experience have no bounds on their nasty nature simply because of lack of size. That's my best guess.

[k9outfit]

To the best of my knowledge, Rams' water requirements are almost at the opposite end of the spectrum from Africans. Soft water with low pH, whereas Africans are hard water and high pH. Not sure if that would kill them or not, but I'm guessing they probably would be fairly stressed out. Also, I don't think they'd be a match for Mbuna - aggression wise. So, possibly hara-kiri?

The Rams I lost were all due to a dominant male anihilating the others, except his chosen mate. I only ever managed to keep 1 pair together.

[JHG]

I agree with the above posters. German Rams should never be mixed with Malawian cichlids. Completely opposite water conditions, plus aggression levels are quite high on the Rift Lake side of things. My suggestion is to decide to begin another tank for the Rams or don't keep them at all. In the meantime, if you don't have any literature on SA Dwarf Cichlids, I strongly suggest you try and pick something up as it will help in your understanding of the fishes living conditions.

J

[Vallisneria]

I dont' really think that the water was the problem because i used to have rams and i just kept them in Edmonton tap water, the same water i used for my africans. They did great and even tried spawning.

It is hard to find good quality rams though. So if you bought some bad stock it could have just been they were weak from the start. Also the aggression from the africans would have affected them. Africans and SA cichlids aren't compatible, especially in a small tank like a 10g. Even if its just a temporary thing.

So my guess is they were stressed out by the africans.

[JHG]

I have no idea of the water conditions in Calgary or Edmonton.

That said, most fishes will "adapt" somewhat to most water conditions. That however does not mean that those water conditions are ideal or that the fishes will live as long. Also, though your fish may have attempted to spawn they will not have a successful spawn if the water is hard and the pH as high as that seen for the typical East African Cichlid. German Rams typically require very soft water with a pH ranging between 4.5-6.5. South American Dwarf Cichlid experts and authors Romer, Linke & Staeck confirm this in their books. I've successfully bred German Rams and agree with their observations.

If you've kept the German Rams in water conditions suitable for East African cichlids then by all means the Rams would appear to be "weak". The reverse is all true if you've kept your East African cichlids in very soft and acidic conditions. I've found German Rams quite hardy if kept in their natural conditions. Raising their fry can be challenging though.

Neely,

Post the water conditions so we can provide better feedback. Aside from that, the East African cichlids probably were just too aggressive for them. Best solution is to keep South American fish And East African cichlids seperate.

J

[Vallisneria]

Edmonton water is high ph and hard(poh 7.8-8.0 and gh 11 or so, i haven't tested in a very long time)

If you've kept the German Rams in water conditions suitable for East African cichlids then by all means the Rams would appear to be "weak". The reverse is all true if you've kept your East African cichlids in very soft and acidic conditions. I've found German Rams quite hardy if kept in their natural conditions. Raising their fry can be challenging though.

I didn't say that the rams appeared weak in the "african" water. In fact they were very hardy. I was expecting these delicate fish you always hear about but i found the complete opposite. Thats why you have to find a good source for them becuase the ones you see at the stores aren't always the healthiest when you buy them.

The point i was trying to make was that the water was probably not the main issue. The problem was keeping them in a small tank with africans.

[albert_dao]

Rams were great additions to my Nemo bowl. Now it's like "OMG! NEEEMO! DOOOREY!!! AND BLUE THINGS!!!"