CO2 injection

[KTV]

I've been reading alot about Co2 injection and how it's probably the most important factor for plant growth.

From what I understand, a simple DIY yeast+sugar method probably won't work for my 110 gallon tank as the concentration won't be nearly enough for plants.

I've read up on some of the larger DIY projects concerning CO2 bottles bought from welding supplies and the like. However I'm not the most crafty person when it comes to making stuff like this.

Maybe some of the experts on the site(Garhan?) can give me some pointers on where to go locally(Calgary) to get some of the equipment I need and some pointers on how I could go about putting it all together.

On a good note, one of my banana plants is growing very well, it sprouted a new leaf in the last 3 days and I see a new shrub coming out. I'm very excited..

[Garhan]

KTV, although I do live in Edmonton, I have been commuting to Calgary regularly on business since 1992. I have found that all the supplies you may need are available at Oxypro Supplies in Edmonton or Calgary. The exception will be air stones, bubble counters, tubing, and likely a needle valve (fine tunes flow of C02). See www.thekrib.com for some of this stuff to source and or Dad’s Fishroom in Edmonton. Check out your good quality Hydroponics Shops in Calgary. Many of them would have Hi-tech gadgetry. For a 150 I personally use a DIY that needs to be recharged every 2 weeks. A bit of a pain but it is effective. Mind you my system is modified from the single bottle (2 liter jug). More on that later.

Oxypro has both new and re-certified 10 lb bottles or larger. Sometimes you can get these for +_ $80.00 (used). You will need a regulator; it can be purchased at the same place. From here you need to find a needle valve that will allow micro adjustment to feed your C02 into the tank. Place a check valve (metal type) in your hosing before it enters the bubble counter and or tank. I like redundancy to before the tank. This allows only a one-way flow. Generally this should not be necessary for a C02 bottle because it is a positive flow. But for DIY bottles it is a must.

An air stone is fine for breaking down the C02 into micro bubbles and a bubble counter is needed to estimate output to tank. The stone I would recommend is a Rena micro-Bubbler. In the past I have used several different varieties of stone for defusing the out put or to a catch systems to allow the water to inherit the C02. The best system still seems to be a good old stone. Rena air stones come in 2”, 4”, and 6”. I use a 4” on my 150 and 2” on my 55 gallon. The Rena stone has greater surface area with a fine bubble.

You will here about a bubble count to displace C02 into your tank. But what size of bubbles, no one seems to tell you about it or do they consider it a value.

I use a DYI counter. This is made of .75” clear tubing (rigid) with 2 stoppers (Pharmaceutical Supply). One on each end and both are drilled out to fit 1/8” piece (1.5” long) rigid tubing. You’re tubing from the needle valve and from the counter to the tank attach here. As a holder I use an old heater holder with suction cups. This is placed on the outside of the tank. On my 150 I use about 8-10 bubbles/ second (SWAG system-Scientific Wild –ss Guess). Enjoy,

Cheers,

Garhan

[KTV]

Thank you for the in-depth reply. I am having a hard time trying to figure out what your bubble counter might look like but I think I understand the premise of what it required. I think I will contact a few hydroponic shop to get a more ideas.

Thank you very much.

On a side note, I also go up to Edmonton quite often. Friends and family there. Don't know if you would mind showing me the way you have things set up the next time I'm up there.

KV

[IronDogg]

I am no plant expert by any means, but for CO2 diffusion into the water, one of these work great. This is a Hagen product I got for about $20 I think. The CO2 bubbles from my DIY canister go into the bottom of this device, and by the time the bubbles get to the top of the diffuser, they are so minute, that they won't actually break the surface of the water. They will collect into a pile of bubbles until they reach critical and then pop all at once... Not perfect absorbtion, but probably at least 80 percent efficient anyway... Pressure has to do a little bit with diffusion too I think. The deeper your diffuser is, the better it should work... Aqualine makes an even better diffuser, but it is alot more money, and you need to hook up a pump to it. But it is VERY efficient, with little to no waste. ...

If you happen to be running an AquaClear filter, you can plug your CO2 line right into the bottom of the pickup tube. The CO2 bubbles get sucked into the impeller and get smashed into tiny, tiny bubbles and get absorbed really quickly.

Remember, if the bubbles are merely going to the surface and dissipating into the air, that CO2 is doing you very little or no good at all... Also remember that surface agitation will drive off CO2, so the less amount of surface disruption you have, the better...

[Garhan]

Here is a pic of the bubble counter and the air stone I use. The stone is placed under the discharge of my trickle filter system. It therefore gets blown through out the tank. The bubbles are extremely small when they leave the stone and most of it does not get to the surface. Some of the other post I would also agree with on the C02 stuff.

WARNINg, be careful of your output on the C02 you do not need to build carbonic acid, and it can happen if things get out of hand. The C02 will also drop your PH, so test frequently until it stabalizes...oxymoron...because the C02 has a differnt effect when the lights are out. So test in when the lights first come on, then mid way through cycle and just before lights go out. Dont freak to much at the PH variance unless it is extreme, mind your bubble count and increase or decrease input. Get a Sera C02 test kit and use it until your comfortable with your sudo- balance.

Garhan :ml:

[Garhan]

And the airstone

[Garhan]

Oh and I dont mind showing you the planted tanks and former fishroom. Well still a small fishroom. But only half running. Anytime..

Cheers,

Garhan :ml:

and pick of new tank setup 2.5 weeks ago.

[KTV]

Iron Dogg. That buble diffuser looks pretty cool! I do have an aquaclear filter so idea about inserting the Co2 directly into the inlet tube is what I might do.

I kinda get the idea now.

Maybe I will try the yeast and sugar method for a bit and see how that turns out.

Just afraid of it blowing up and making a mess.

[Garhan]

Sugestion on the container for your C02. 2 liter wide mouthed bottle work, but your right it could blow all over the place. Try a 1gallon or the smaller gas can you can find at CT. The lid allows you to put a 1/8"-1/4" tubing bullet into it and the can will likely hold higher volumes of pressure. But if you do this make sure you secure all your connections with clamps on your tubing. Rain Drop water products at Home Depot has them in the water sprinkler sections. These are for city water pressurized underground and above ground systems.

cheers,

Garhan :ml:

[Ryan]

Umm i have no co2 on my tank and my plants are thriving

[Garhan]

Ryan, got a good current picture of that tank. I would like to see your setup. Give us some details on your tank also please.Thanks

Garhan :ml:

[IronDogg]

Sticking your CO2 line into the bottom of the AC filter intake tube is probably the cheapest way to go for CO2 diffusion (you may have to cut out the cross piece in the bottom of the intake tube. The only problem with it, is that it is noisy method(once you get used to it, you will not notice anymore). The filter makes a big gurgle/burp every time the CO2 runs into the impeller. It works good though.

If you use the DIY method, don't use a 2 litre pop bottle, they could possibly break. Use a 1.89 litre juice jug instead i.e. Cranberry juice jug, etc...

[Garhan]

Irondog, I concur with the Juice bottle. That is what I should have said in the first place. (apologies)Wide mouth on bottle also allows for easier fills and setting in a proper nipple to attach your line to. I have done the line into the intake on Fluval and Aquaclear. My experience with both is that although this works it is noise. But if you run that Rena micro bubbler it will reduce the noise.(some) Not kidding ppl that bubbler is the ticket. It has a super fine air bubble.

For the 7.00 dollar venture if you dont like it save it for when you put to much C02 in the tank and your fish are gasping for oxygen at the waterline in your tank. If this happens youll wish you had that air stone anyways.

Cheers,

garhan

[Garhan]

PS. With the possibility of blowing up a bottle juice,pop or otherwise, you might want to put your C02 bottle in a larger container with a loose fitting lid. My experience with this is about 2.5 hours of scrubbing newly installed wayne scot wall and ceramic floor and tank bottom and, etc..... :mad: how stupid of me...lol and my friends thought and my wife that I was running a beer factory or was super audible for being drunk.

Cheers,

Garhan

[KTV]

So I made the concoction before I read you guys' post on the Juice bottle. it's in a 2 litre diet coke bottle right now, I just drilled a hole in the cap and siliconed the hose on. The next time I'm at the super market I'll buy an ocean spray or v8 juice bottle to use. However I did put it inside a old tool metal tool box and drilled a hole for the air line. In case it does blow up the crap won't go anywhere but inside the toolbox. I hope it will start making bubbles tommorow. I don't have it attached to an air stone yet since I still want to see if the bubbles will come or not, once I know it will start making Co2 I am going to stick the tube directly into the inlet of my Aquaclear filter.

I find it hilarious I'm being so financially restrictive on the mechanism designed to help my plants sustain growth and yet already bought two new sword plants to replace the ones that just died.