water changes in a planted tank

[maniac]

If you have plants in your tank, do you have to do water changes as often as if you didn't?

again i'm full of beginner questions

maniac

Edited September 21, 2006 by maniac

[uwish]

If you have plants in your tank, do you have to do water changes as often as if you didn't?

again i'm full of beginner questions

maniac

While it would seem that live plants helps "filter" the contaminants in the water, you would need a large amount of plants in order to cut back on water changes. Unless your tank is literally over run with live plants, I would not cut back on the water changes.

Make sure you have a good CO2 generator of some kind as the plants will likely not do well with out one.

[jvision]

Plants need nutrients to grow, so there are a few ways to get them the nutrients they need. One is through water changes; so, regular large WCs will make plants happy.

Another way is through a nutrient rich substrate (potting soil, peat+fert tabs, etc.)

The other way is by fertilizing the water column. When you do that, stuff that isn't used up right away will build up, so regular WCs are still required.

[Ichthyosporidium]

A 20% water change per week is a good average. Do not include evapouration as part of the water change. This means that if you had a 20 gallon tank, you would, at 20%, remove 4 gallons of water. If you had 1 gallon of water evapourate, you would add 21 gallons total.

Make sure you do not do a water change and filter maintenance on the saame day. Optimally, it is best spread out by a three day margin or longer, depending on maintenance schedules.

[Nyasa]

Why shouldn't one do filtre maintenance at the same time as they are doing a water change?

This has always been my habit. I use the discarded tank water to rinse the filtre media.

[Ichthyosporidium]

By doing filter maintenance and a water change at the same time, you risk removing too many bacteria all at once. The likelyhood of upsetting the balance in the tank increases.

This is by all means not allways the case, but by staggering maintenance schedules, you further insure that your system stays balanced.

[jvision]

There really aren't any bacteria in hte water itself, so I don't see the problem in doing a WC and filter maintenance at the same time. If you do a gravel vac, maybe just do a 1/4 or 1/2 the tank at a time.

[Ichthyosporidium]

There really aren't any bacteria in hte water itself, so I don't see the problem in doing a WC and filter maintenance at the same time. If you do a gravel vac, maybe just do a 1/4 or 1/2 the tank at a time.

Actually, the water is full of bacteria, just not in the concentrations you see in your substrate and filter media.

[Ichthyosporidium]

I want to add to my prior statement. If you do a 50% water change on a healthy, balanced tank and nothing else, guess what!?

You will get cloudy water. Why do you get cloudy water? Well, when there is a mass vacancy in the tank, you will have a bacterial bloom. This is where bacteria will rapidly multiply to fill the void that is created from such a mass amount of water being removed from the system. Once the bacteria reach an equillibrium, the water clears again.

Just because the water appears clear does not mean it is sterile. It is also a time where other, less desireable, microscopic organisims have a chance to establish themselves due to the absence of the nitrifying (good) bacteria.

So not only does any practise that allows for as many nitrifying bacilli possible to remain after the maintenance is performed, a good thing for the environmental aspect of the tank, it also reduces the likelyhood of many types of pathogenic bacteria and fungi from establishing themselves in the tank.

[cgmac]

I have had my planted tank up and running for a year now. I am using the EI method of fertilizing and must remove 50 % of the water each week so I don't get a build up of the ferts in the water. I have done (many times) 50 % changes and even cleaned out the filter at the same time, and not had a bacterial bloom with cloudy or green water being the result. I do a gravel vac each time I clean the tank. I don't clean out the filter often, my AC once a month and my Eheim hasn't been done yet, and I've had it hooked up three months now (I think it is time). I did get cloudy water one time when I removed a large plant that I didn't like much, but I solved the problem by hooking up the Magnum 250 filter with some diatom powder and let it run for about an hour. Just my thoughts......

[Ichthyosporidium]

While it is interesting to see that other people's techniques are working for them, I am giving a general principal that is a good starting point for beginner and novice hobbyists. As you know, once a person has kept a tank for a while, you get to know what the tank will and won't put up with for maintenance.

This reminds me of an experiment my father carried out with and for me when I was about nine years old to better understand the concept of variability (some of us know it also as the chaos factor).

When I questioned my father about why some tanks do well and others are a problem to the point that they have to be shut down and restarted when we allways follow the same routine and proceedure?

He explained to me that variables that were not apparent to us at the time can ultimately affect the outcome of every tank's sucess. He brought out (5) ten gallon tanks. The tanks were setup on a table, right next to each other. The setups were identical. The same filters, the same lighting, even the gravel and media were measured so that all was as homeostatic (the same) as possible. We seeded the tank with water that contained sponge squeezings from a large sponge filter from our pond. We then added (2) goldfish to each tank and maintained them by using the exact same method we used for all tanks we kept.

Over the course of one year, the results were as follows: Three tanks were problem free, one tank had to be shut down and restarted twice to which we lost (2) goldfish each time and one tank had a nitrite spike at around the three month period resulting in loosing one goldfish.

The point to all this was to show that no matter what technique you use, there is no one hundred percent effective method to maintaining all aquariums.

What I suggest is within safe parameters of maintaining a tank when you still do not know the nature of that tank. When you become more familiar with how your tank responds to different techniques and you are confident that it will work for YOU, then go with it.

Fortunately, we have nowadays, superior filtration equipment that create a bioreactive environment that is usually found in bodies of water many times the volume of the tank that it is filtering. This makes for a more forgiving situation when it come to water changes and cleaning the gravel. I was used to having box filters and undergravel filters for cutting edge technology when I was younger. These types of filters are absolutely inferior to the power filters we enjoy today and as such, I had to be careful to the extent of maintenance being done on the tank as the balance was that more delicate back then. The advice given by me might be deemed overly cautious in today's standards but it has proven to me that it is one of the safer approaches to keeping a tank and has been for new aquarists that have come to me for such advice.

[grapeape]

:thumbs: excellent post :thumbs:

[maniac]

I agree thanks guys :bow:

[Ichthyosporidium]

Just to add a little more.

I cannot stress as to how important water testing is, especially in new aquaria. It is consistent and frequent testing that will tell you the nature of your setup and how best to deal with it's requirements. Invest in a good test kit as it will save you money and heartaches in the end.

Now I am off to Calgary for some tortise wranglin'.

[jvision]

In a planted tank, there are ways around test kits. But, you have to plant HEAVILY! I mean plant almost more fast-growing plants than will fit in your tank for the first month or so, and use the EI method of fertilization.

After about a month, you can start to switch some of those stem plants and other fast-growers with plants that you prefer.

Otherwise, do as Ich suggested - get some good test kits. Seachem makes a reliable line of kits.