more problems

[Joseph Elliott]

As you may remember I lost all of my fish a few weeks ago due to an unknown cause (probably heat). i bought a couple tetras to help keep things going and I was away with work this past week only to come home to another dead tank, the plants are doing awesome but the fish not so good. I believe that this time the valve on my CO2 dumped because my 20 pound bottle is completely empty and I just had it refilled 7 weeks ago. Is this likely caused by a faulty regulator with no needle valve? Should I buy a tank of oxygen and hook up another bubble ladder? I've never seen my plants pearl and I'm not sure why; they get dosed with ferts every week and get co2 24-7, the only limiting factor is light at less than 1wpg. Thanks in advance for any help,

Joseph

Edited August 5, 2008 by Joseph Elliott

[Blue Ram]

I'll start and some of the plant experts can chime in. For starters, if the C02 system malfunctioned, it most likely dropped the ph too low and could have caused enough shock to kill the fish. Second, the plants only need C02 when your lights are on for photosynthesis. With the light you are running, I would not even both with C02 - it is not enough to warrant it. Your C02 system should be on a timer with the lights (better!!) with a bubble counter so you can gauge how much C02 is entering the tank. Frequent ph tests both before the C02 system comes on and a couple of hours after it has been running, will tell you how much the C02 is lowering your ph. You do not want big swings in ph over the course of 24 hrs. I would determine firstly if your system is malfunctioning (without any fish) in the tank, and secondly, investing in better light.

PS you can have beautiful low light plants without C02 and regular fertilizing.

[Joseph Elliott]

Thanks for the info. I agree about the probable ph drop, if the regulator dumped all the co2 out of my tank then the ph probably dropped out of site. I use a bubble ladder to infuse the water with co2 and it runs at about 2 bubbles per second, my ph stays at 7 which is down from tap water (ph of 8) and I haven't seen it vary between day and night - I frequently tested randomly for the first month when i set it up. How would I set up the co2 to be on a timer? I'm not sure what you mean by the co2 malfunctioning, its not a high tech system, just a tank, a regulator, air line, a check valve, and a bubble ladder. The lighting is the fluorescent canopy that came with the tank but will be replaced when I can afford it.

[jvision]

The way to set your CO2 on a timer without a solenoid valve is to bubble it into a powerhead, then plug the powerhead into a timer. That way when you don't need CO2, it just bubbles out of the tank instead of being dissolved into the water.

With just 1wpg, cut your CO2 way back to one bubble per second or less. And, if you're doing regular WCs, you don't need to add much - if any - ferts... save them for when you update the lights. Your plants will likely not pearl 'til you get more light.

Does your tank have a single or dual-stage regulator (one or two gauges). I usually keep my 2nd gauge at around 20psi, but you'll probably want it a lot less if you don't have a needle-vavle.

[Joseph Elliott]

I found that my plants were lacking potassium and were kinda yellow from just tap water, so I started dosing with potassium and tropica liquid ferts and everything but my tiger lotus has bounced back. The Tiger lotus is doing much, much better but still has some yellowing of the leaves, maybe an iron deficiency?

Its a dual stage regulator and I have it set at 1psi, anymore ant it bubbles like its going out of style.

I don't really want another item in my tank (powerhead) I've already got an hob filter and the ehiem that i bought off you, a heater and the bubble ladder any more and there won't be room for fish and plants lol.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Joseph Elliott

[firestorm]

Have you though of buying a CO2 testing kit? I have one and it works good for showing if you have too little or too much CO2. This is what it looks like I would definitely suggest turning CO2 off at night, especially with pressurized systems. And remember that usually the more light you have, the more CO2 you will need. I would upgrade your lighting system so that you have 2wpg. Your plants will thrive and the nutrients and CO2 will be used up better by the plants, and will decrease chances of having high levels of CO2 in your tank.

[werner]

A 20lb tank should last a lot longer than 7 weeks (like well over a year). What brand is the regulator? If you have to crank it right down to nothing so it doesn't bubble like crazy, then there may be something wrong with it. If you aren't using any other method of controlling the CO2 input (timer, pH controller, etc.), then a needle valve becomes necessary to finesse the bubble rate. It's nice to have a built in one with your regulator, but you can always add it on.

You do need to upgrade the lights. Having the CO2 system is kind of pointless until you get over 2-2.5 wpg.

[jvision]

The HOB will gas-off the CO2, the Eheim is definitely enough on a 46 planted tank. If you were keeping a Rift Lake tank, I'd say keep the HOB, otherwise, it can start becoming counter productive.

[Joseph Elliott]

Its a simgo regulator and I'm going to buy a new one. And I'll take off the hob and maybe next month I'll get new lights.

[Joseph Elliott]

Well I have a new Milwaukee regulator on its way with a needle valve/bubble counter, and solenoid. I purchased 2 T5HO lights at 39W each which brings my 33g to 2.3W/g. I also bought a bunch more plants and replaced my laterite layered sand with eco-complete. When my regulator gets here what should I set the bubble rate at?

Edited August 9, 2008 by Joseph Elliott

[byte]

You will want to set the bubble rate to maintain a 30 ppm concentration of CO2. The bubble rate will vary due to use by plants, surface agitation, etc. If you use a CO2 monitor like below, you might want to read why you should use 4 DkH water in it instead of aquarium water like the instructions call for. Depending on your kH of your water, you can usually drop the pH of the tank by one full point to get "about" 30 ppm of CO2.

Have you though of buying a CO2 testing kit? I have one and it works good for showing if you have too little or too much CO2. This is what it looks like

Or here is a dual compartment CO2 checker. I have one and it works nice.

http://www.calaqualabs.com/doublecheck.html

[Joseph Elliott]

Thanks for the info and the link. I think I have one somewhere i'll have to dig around a little and try to find it.

Edit: Found it.

Edited August 9, 2008 by Joseph Elliott

[jvision]

If you get it all going before you get a CO2 monitor (I don't own one, nor do I use test kits), start with about 1 bubble per second - it should be fine for a 33 gal. If you find that algae is becoming a problem (some is normal, but if it distracts from the plants/tank it's a problem, IMO) then increase the CO2 a bit... up it by 1/2 bubble per second. If algae is still a problem after several days, you probably have a nutrient dificiency. Ask here for help, then.

[firestorm]

You will want to set the bubble rate to maintain a 30 ppm concentration of CO2. The bubble rate will vary due to use by plants, surface agitation, etc. If you use a CO2 monitor like below, you might want to read why you should use 4 DkH water in it instead of aquarium water like the instructions call for. Depending on your kH of your water, you can usually drop the pH of the tank by one full point to get "about" 30 ppm of CO2.

Have you though of buying a CO2 testing kit? I have one and it works good for showing if you have too little or too much CO2. This is what it looks like

Or here is a dual compartment CO2 checker. I have one and it works nice.

http://www.calaqualabs.com/doublecheck.html

Cool, I never even knew they had these things out there. What is the difference with this compared to the one I have? What exactly do they use to make it more accurate? I myself am not overly concerned with excess CO2 because I only use the yeast method. You can even try shutting your CO2 down at night to prevent levels from getting too high, since plants only take in CO2 during the day when they are going through photosynthesis.