RD.

My point was Seachem appears to have reduced their dosage rate from one teaspoon per 300 gallons, to 1/4 teaspoon per 300 gallons. That's a rather significant reduction. That, or someone made a major mistake on their website. Either way I'll find out and post back.

I dunno WTF is going on, but it appears as of 2015 Seachem has changed this yet again. NOTE. These directions supersede all other prior packaging. Directions for 10 g and 50 g Use 100 mg Safe (scoop) per each 100 L (25 gallons) as needed to reduce chlorine and chloramine or per 25 L (6 gallons) for ammonia. Directions for all other sizes Use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 1,250 L (300 gallons) as needed to reduce chlorine and chloramine or use 1.25 g (1/4 tsp.) for every 300 L (75 gallons) for ammonia. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite and nitrate in an emergency, up to 4 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

Hey Harold, hope life's been treating you well. Just for the record, the question really didn't have anything to do with WC fish vs domestics, the question asked was;

While I am not nearly as old as syno321, I concur with his comment. The reality is that the number one trigger of most ailments in fish, is stress, and the transportation of fish can be very stressful on a fish. For wild caught fish, the stress is sometimes more than a fish can take, but even with domesticaly bred fish the netting, bagging, and long distance shipping can prove to be deadly. It is for these reasons that even in the case of non wild domestic strains, locally purchased fish are almost always a safer bet. The following was recently posted on another forum that I'm a member on, and describes what many WC fish go through, before they end up in our aquariums. There are other things to consider. A lot of South American fish, particularly blackwater fish, come from very pure, clean water. The extremely low pH inhibits the presence of high loads of bacteria. Once you introduce them into an aquarium environment, they're likely being exposed to higher bacterial/viral loads than they experienced in the wild. Combine that with their compromised immune system brought on by stress, and potentially overcrowded tanks with questionable water quality (high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate/DOC), and it can be too much for the fish to deal with. The best option is always to find F1 fish, or find a seller who has already gone through the process of acclimating and treating the wild stock. This is tricky, because it's not cost effective for importers and sellers to sit on fish for a month while they treat and acclimate them.

Hey guys, congrats!

Bloat is not caused from too much protein. You might want to read this: http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?456034-Bloat-Causes-Cures-and-BIG-Myths

+1 A good read on how lighting can affect cyano ......... http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2006/07/blue-green-algae-in-aquariums.html

My measuring system is rather non scientific. I use a small kitchen measuring spoon, 1/8 teaspoon, and just toss a bit of the product under the flow of my filter output once every other week. I'm sure that I'm being wasteful, but even so I probably have enough product to last me several more years. What extra bacteria is added to my tanks, simply dies off when they run out of organics to consume.

Looking at the raw ingredients listed on a fish food label isn't going to accomplish anything. Phosphates & phosphorus are a neccesary evil in fish food, and while there are definitely various grades when it comes to quality among those sources found in foods, a high phosphate level does not equate to a poor quality food. In fact, it can be quite the opposite. As an example, a food that contains a high inclusion rate of low cost terrestrial based plant matter such as corn, soybean, wheat, etc, could have a far lower phosphate level than a food that was high in fish, krill, shrimp, etc. A good read on this subject. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry The way that I beat the battle with algae in my non planted tanks was to get rid of my T5 HO lights (the main cause), perform large weekly water changes (the solution to pollution is dilution), and utilize organic eating probiotic bacteria. A paper on the subject: http://www.academicjournals.org/article/article1380706087_Padmavathi%20et%20al.pdf A thread on the subject that was stickied on another forum that I am a member on. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?536531-The-Use-of-Probiotics-in-Aquaculture For the past couple of years or so I have been using a product manufactured in Calgary, called Bactri-Pond. http://www.evenspray.com/Spec%20sheets/Bactri-Pond%20-%20PKG0309.pdf HTH

While both substances are a good source of plant protein, where they really shine is in their content of vitamins, minerals, and natural immunostimulants and antioxidant pigments. (carotenoids) They also both contain natural growth factors, that science is still exploring with regards to enhancing the growth of fry/fingerlings.

Some of the commercial dry fish foods on the market contain chlorella and/or spirulina, which I personally believe is a good thing, even for fish classified as carnivorous.

The nice part is that when they do succesfully breed, you'll end up with more fry than you'll know what to do with.

I agree with Ivan.

Dan from COA sells a domestic strain of Trimac, that depending on their size range in price from $6.50 - $35.00 http://www.cichlidsoftheamericas.com/id2.html Should be a nice strain, good luck with them!

You might want to check before you start marketing the fry, there's only a few reputable sources left that sell pure trimacs. Jeff Rapps from Tangled up in Cichlids, Gage at Cichlid Connection, and Dan from Cichlids of the Americas. The rest out there are typically low grade red dragon flowerhorn. Always good to see some pure stock getting circulated.

Do you happen to know where they got them from? Just curious, one doesn't often see trimacs in these parts.

Cool, congrats on the spawn B&I. Where did the trimacs come from?

Cut the trim on a brand new 125 gallon, to custom fit a puny little AC 50? I fail to see the logic behind that. Personally I wouldn't run anything smaller than an AC 70 on a 125 gallon, my personal preference on a 6ft tank being the AC 110's.

AC 110 should fit with no issue. Buy one at Petsmart, if it doesn't fit simply return it.

Sorry to hear that, nothing worse then growing something out for months just to find out that it wasn't what it was sold as. Those fish are not pure, just someones left over hybrid trash.

Some seriously fugly hybrids. Personally I would snuff the life out of them & move on. The person that brought those to the auction deserves to be kicked in the gonads.

Just keep in mind that some plant matter can also be high in protein, so what it really comes down to is how your fish assimilate the protein that you are feeding. As an example, dried spirulina typically contains 55-70% crude protein. This is another flake that might interest you, but the crude fat content is on the higher side at a minimum of 11%. http://www.omegasea.net/products/nutrition/super-kelp-flakes Ingredients: Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat flour, Wheat Gluten, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative),Ethoxyquin (Preservative). Guaranteed Analysis: Min. Crude Protein…..33% Min. Crude Fat…….…11% Max. Crude Fiber….….2% Max. Moisture………. 8.5% Max. Ash……………...10% Min. Phosphorus…....(0.5%) Min. Omega 3 ……….. 2% Min. Omega 6………....1%

I believe that NLS AlgaeMax comes in the larger bucket sizes, in 1, 2 and 3mm pellet sizes, but as to who has those sizes is beyond me. You'd have to ask around the various suppliers/vendors. As far as the Fluval flakes I don't believe that they are sold in bulk.

I'm not a big fan of flake either, no matter the brand. As you said it's messy, and it needs to be eaten up quickly as the water soluble vitamins begin leaching out the moment those flakes hit the water. Pellets are typically more nutrient dense, and far more stable in water. To the OP ....... if you are determined to feed flake food, and want one that has a main ingredient of spirulina, you might want to check out Fluval Vegetarian flakes. You can get these locally (I've seen them at Petland), and they look as good or better than the HBH flakes that you were feeding. http://usa.hagen.com/fluval-fish-food Ingredients: Dried spirulina algae, herring meal, dried potato, krill, wheat flour, wheat bran, dehydrated alfalfa meal, dried broccoli, dried cabbage, dried carrot, dried garlic, dried kelp, shrimp meal, dried spinach, fish oil (preserved with BHA), dried yeast, flaxseed oil, wheat germ meal, choline chloride, DL-methionine, lecithin, vitamin E supplement, inositol, citric acid (preservative), BHT (preservative), calcium L-ascorbyl-2-monophosphate, niacin, d-calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride, propyl gallate (preservative), thiamine mononitrate, folic acid, vitamin A supplement, ethoxyquin (preservative), vitamin B12 supplement, biotin, vitamin D3 supplement. Crude protein Min 35% Crude fat Min 6% Crude fiber Max 4% Moisture Max 9% Ash Max 10% Calcium Min 1.5% Phosphorus Min 1% Vitamin A Min 15,000 IU/Kg Vitamin D3 Min 600 IU/Kg Ascorbic acid(Vitamin C) Min 350 mg/Kg Vitamin E Min 150 IU/Kg

HBH is no longer, see previous comment I made. At best you might be lucky and find some old stock kicking around, but for now I cannot even confirm that Pisces Pros are still manufacturing any of the lines, and many products have for certain been discontinued. Having said that, the OP's HBH flake appeared to be high in soy flour, and also included soy oil. I wouldn't feed that to my fish if I won a lifetime supply for free. But that's just me. Ditto to much of the flakes sold by Angelfins. More soy flour, along with wheat, oat flour, gluten flour, etc. Low cost filler ingredients that look like a fish formula designed in the 1960's. Bleh. The main reason that the fish go after foods such as that with gusto is due to the "spray dried salmon", which is high in both protein & fat, and would no doubt trigger a good feed response. No different than spray dried blood meal that was used in years past, and still is in many commercial farm feeds. Northfin makes a good quality food, generally speaking I would have no issue recommending their food, I have used it on a number of different fish and their color & overall health has held true (compared to NLS) and it appears to be just as digestible. Having said that, I would not recommend a couple of their products, one being their veggie formula. Not that it is a bad food, or made from low quality ingredients, but simply using kelp as a main ingredient (as Omega has done for years) is not the same as utilizing a wide variety of aquatic based plant matter, that contain a wide assortment of nutrients, such as NLS has done with their new line of AlgaeMax pellets & gel mixes. Kelp meal is very easy to source, so some manufacturers use it as their main or only source of plant matter. It also contains approx 30-40% ash content, due to its high mineral content. Again, not a bad thing, IMO there's just better ways to get the job done. It appears that NLS also have a new mini wafer out as well, and the ingredients have also been improved in that line. I know that they now use less wheat in ALL of their product line up, due to using a higher inclusion rate of aquatic plant matter which also assists as binding agents. http://www.bigalspets.ca/mini-wafers-7-5-mm-sinking-tablets-125-g.html Whole Antarctic Krill, Whole Fish, Whole Wheat Flour, Ulva Seaweed, Chlorella Algae, Kelp, Spirulina, Garlic, Beta-Carotene, Alfalfa, Mollusk, Omega-3, Fruit Extract, Vegetable Extract, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamins etc ..... Crude Protein (min) - 33% Crude Fat (min) - 5% Crude Fiber (max) - 6% Moisture (max) - 10% Ash (max) - 8% And when Paul (syno321) needs to consult with someone about fish nutrition, he calls me. Sorry Paul, I couldn't resist. lol