Oscar eating gravel???

[Stacey]

Hi everyone,

I think my Oscar has been eating his gravel..... there are a few pieces of gravel that look almost surrounded in poo, like they passed through him. He is acting absolutely normal, and I've seen him pick up gravel in his mouth then spit it out.......... but I've never seen gravel that looks like it went through him before? (The poo encrusted gravel is all small pieces, smaller than his normal poos) Does anyone else's fish do this? I don't suppose there is any way to stop it, other than to take all the gravel out??

...... only 2 posts on this forum and they're both about poo! I'm not obsessed, folks, really!!

[Picasso Trigger]

my Albino tiger oscar used to do this all the time i assumed that he was being like a crocodile and swallowing rocks to help break down the food inside of his stomach . What are you feeding it?

[Sam Chicklets]

Stacy more fecal follies? LOL. But seriously I don't think he will swallow anything to big to pass.

[Stacey]

Fecal follies! HA

I feed him 1 frozen cube of fish food per day,(5 different types) supplemented with pellets. Plus whatever veggies he steals from the pleco...... not much, but he does like lettuce and mushroom.

I think I will up the maintenance to twice a week........ so much pleco poop on the bottom that he keeps mistaking for something delicious......

[Picasso Trigger]

sometimes if you give them too much pellets the pellets will rot in the GI tract that happened to my oscar a couple times he could be swallowing the rocks as a way to get rid of all of the rotting pellets (when you feed him the pellets does he take them almost as soon as they hit the water or does he ignore them for a little while because as you know the pellets are very hard when not saturated with water and since oscars IME are too lazy to even use their tounges to mash up hard pellets he could be swallowing the gravel to break up the pellets)

[RD.]

sometimes if you give them too much pellets the pellets will rot in the GI tract that happened to my oscar a couple times he could be swallowing the rocks as a way to get rid of all of the rotting pellets (when you feed him the pellets does he take them almost as soon as they hit the water or does he ignore them for a little while because as you know the pellets are very hard when not saturated with water and since oscars IME are too lazy to even use their tounges to mash up hard pellets he could be swallowing the gravel to break up the pellets)

Usually if the diet is the cause of any gastrointestinal issues, it will be caused by poor quality hard to digest protein, and/or excessive carbohydrates. Some forms of carbs are very difficult for most fish to digest, hence the reason why fish foods that are high in poor quality carbs should always be avoided.

If a fish can't digest the food, then it can lead to impactions in the gut. The fish stops eating (as it can't pass what's already in it) the impacted area goes septic from multiplying bacteria, and the result can be (and quite often is) deadly.

A fish's gut contains acids & enzymes that will turn most pellets into mush within minutes, if not seconds, and they most certainly would not be eating gravel to break up any pellets that they have swallowed.

[Stacey]

He only eats pellets maybe 3 times per week, about 6 or so of the small size "Hikari Staple" cichlid pellet. Mostly he gets the frozen cubes....... I feed the "San Francisco Bay" brand variety pack, containing "cichlid delight", "emerald entree", "spirulina enriched brine shrimp", and "bloodworms". He also gets the frozen "beefheart", same brand. Reading the ingredients list, these foods don't seen to contain much carbohydrates.

RD. - What are bad carbs for a fish? What should I be avoiding?

He doesn't seem sick, still eating..... I will do more water changes, so that I can keep looking for more "nasty gravel", hopefully this is just a one time thing, as I've never noticed it before.

Thanks for the imput folks.

[RD.]

Stacey - It's not just the types of carbs, it's also the total amount of carbs used to make up the food.

As an example, take a close look at the first 5 ingredients in the pellet that you use.

fish meal, wheat flour, soybean meal, rice bran, gluten meal,

Wheat flour is a necessity, as it's used as a binding agent which allows the food to hold together. Soybean is ok too, but soybean isolate or concentrate is far better than soybean meal, as they are much higher in protein, and they do not contain the anti-nutritional factors that are present in the less costly soybean meal. The real problem lies in the fact that you have a single marine protein, followed by 4 types of carbs. The reality is that most fish will have difficulty digesting anything beyond 20% carbs, and by the looks of your pellet, when added together "carbohydrates" are the true main ingredient in the food.

Most of these carbs are used for the same reason that manufacturers use them in dog food ..... they are less costly fillers. Not all of them, but most of them. Fish don't require rice bran, gluten meals (especially if it's derived from corn), etc, and the reality is that using too much of these grains tends to stunt the growth of the fish, and suppress the immune system. It also causes excess waste in the aquarium, as excess grain content cannot be assimilated by most fish, and the excess is excreted in your tank. Again, think dog food, and what goes in either gets utilized by the animal, or excreted as waste. Low cost foods usually equate to high maintenance clean ups.

As far as your frozen foods, that's correct, very little of the total % would consist of carbs, because approx 80% would be water. Frozen foods make great treats, but you're paying a lot of $$$ for water, and very little for the nutritional portion of the food. IMO you'd be far better off finding a higher quality pellet food as your main staple, and using supermarket frozen shrimp, krill, etc as your treat.

HTH

[Stacey]

RD. - After reading the label on the Hikari pellets, and conducting a little "experiment" on the frozen food, (thawed out cube, squished water out with paper towel) I must conclude that you're right. My fishes diet could use some revision....... I'll be stopping by Riverfront tomorrow, to read the labels of all the food they sell...... am I correct on assuming that I should be looking for "fishy ingredients" first on the label instead of "wheaty ingredients"?

[RD.]

...... am I correct on assuming that I should be looking for "fishy ingredients" first on the label instead of "wheaty ingredients"?

Yes, if wheat or any type of grain is listed as the main ingredient, then it would be wise to pass on that brand of food. Having said that, just keep in mind that there are many ways to manipulate an ingredient label, and sometimes the manner in which ingredients are listed can be deceiving. As an example, a label could have 6 different types of fish listed, then a couple of "grain" ingredients listed, and to the average consumer that might seem rather impressive.......but if the total amount of fish used per ton was 400 pounds, and "each" grain that followed the "fish" listed on the label was 350 pounds, the true main ingredient would still be grain.

[Stacey]

RD -meant to reply to this thread sooner, life sometimes gets in the way of posting on fish forums!

I looked at your site, read your article on fish food ingredients. (And refering to your last post, I really don't know if the food I chose is a good one or not, (Omega One) but it LOOKED better than the Hikari.) I join fish forums because I want the opinions of others more experienced than I. I have only 6 fish (actually 3 are frogs) and care very much about what I feed them. I saw the NLS fish food at Riverfront, and it was certainly priced like it was the best. Price normally isn't a problem, but that day I was unemployed. (not anymore, but this is Calgary) However the primary reason I did not buy the NLS chiclid formula is that they only had the medium sized jar in stock. I have only one oscar, and would like to buy the smallest possible container, for freshness. I am definitely interested in the NLS food, and have a question about the Pleco wafers.

I have a common Pleco, he/she has grown about an inch a month since I got it. The folks at Plecofanatics.com suggest that a common pleco is primarily vegetarian, and should be fed accordingly. My pleco's staple diet is cucumber, (will eat his body weight in the mini ones, definately the favorite) zuchinni, kiwi friut and lettuce. I've also offered plenty of other veggies, with varying success. I supplement with pleco wafers, for protein, about once or twice a week. (again the Hikari brand, tried Wardley's and I swear he laughed at me, then said "come on, chuck in a kiwi, ya know ya wanna" (so I did)).......... Well that was long winded, can you tell I've had a :beer: or two while posting this??........ Anyway my question is...... How many times per week would you feed a vegetarian pleco the NLS wafer? I have little doubt that it contains better quality protein, but I want to ensure he gets enough, without getting too much protein. He seems to be growing well on his current diet, is now about 7.5 inches TL.

You're imput is appreciated, I definately want to see for myself if the NLS food is as good as you (and others) suggest it is!

Thanks,

Stacey

[RD.]

Hi Stacey,

For future reference, when handled & stored under proper conditions, NLS will retain it's nutritional value for 1 year. (from date of purchase) What size is your oscar, as you might be better served feeding it one of the larger formulas, vs. the cichlid formula?

As far as the pleco, I'm of the belief that to a certain extent almost all species of fish are omnivores, so even if the main protein source is marine based (fish) as long as the food contains an ample amount of high quality vegetable based ingredients, even species classified as herbivores will thrive on it. The plecos that I've kept, which includes wild caught specimens, all ate NLS pellets/wafers, and whatever algae they could scrape on a daily basis, and they all thrived on that diet. My albino BN plecos spawned on a diet of NLS pellets, and only 10-20% of their diet consisted of algae. They received no other foods besides NLS.

It got to the point that when the pellets hit the water, the plecos came flying out of the rocks for it. They had amazing color, showed good growth, and as previously stated, they spawned on this diet, so I can only assume that they were healthy & happy.

My L017 pleco (a wild caught fish) became so territorial over the wafers (which I would add after the lights went out) that I eventually had to remove him from my 54 gallon community tank, as he would attack any fish that came near "his" wafer. As much as this fish enjoyed scraping algae (perhaps the best algae eating fish that I have ever owned) he would go absolutely nuts over the wafers, and eventually so much so that his aggression was causing issues with my other fish. Again, he had great color, showed good growth, and was as healthy as a horse when I sold him.

If you would prefer to feed your common pleco fresh veggies as its staple, I would still offer it a wafer or two at least a few times a week. Your fish will get much more than just extra protein out of the food.

As far as cost, in order to truly compare feed costs, you need to evaluate the feed conversion ratios, as in how much of the food is actually being digested & fully utilized by the fish. Not just how much each food costs per ounce.

T-bone's & bulk weiners both consist of meat, but there's a reason why one costs a lot more per ounce.

HTH

Edited January 14, 2007 by RD.

[Stacey]

RD - my oscar is only about 6 or 7 inches. (total length) Why do you say I might be better off feeding the oscar a larger fish formula, instead of the cichlid formula? Just because of the size of the cichlid pellets??

I will try the pleco wafers when I get a paycheque.

One more stupid question...... Are there any NLS preparations suitable for African Dwarf Frogs? I currently hand feed them with (frozen) bloodworms, brine shrimp and beefheart. I also offer a packaged frog food, but I've never seen them eat it.....

btw, thanks for patiently answering all my questions

[RD.]

Yes, due to the size of the pellets. For a 6-7" Oscar I would personally go with the Large Fish (3mm) pellets.

I've read where people have fed some of the various formulas to newts, lizards, and turtles, so I suppose that a frog might eat it as well, but there is no specific formula made just for frogs, or for reptiles.

Glad to help.

[murmade]

I haven't tried nls yet, but my Oscar has done very well on Hikari cichlid gold, sanfrancisco bay freshwater multi packs(frozen & only as ocassional treats) and cucumbers, zuchinni's etc. he is just over a year old and 10.5-11" long. he eats the medium pellets, and has since about 7" long. when I got him at 3" he had virtually no red, and now he's coloured up very well. there are pics in my profile. and I've never had coonstipation issues!

Just thought I'd throw out another option!

Edited January 22, 2007 by murmade