Ideas for a pond

[Fish Dude]

Hi, I have a 86 gallon (I think) pond, with only a filter and a bad waterfall. What do I need to get fish and or plants.

Thanks

[snaggle]

You should upgrade the filter and get a larger pump for the water fall. You could add some thing like this waterfall "Up Flow" Filters

Do you have any pictures of the equipment from you pond or your pond so we can tell you what you need.

I would not add any koi to your pond. gold fish would be ok though.

Brad

[Fish Dude]

What size of a pond would that filter be for? It looks a little big for my pond, and there is also not a lot of room for landscaping a big hill for a waterfall.

I can't get a picture of my pond right now, as I am a little busy. I will try to get a pic this weekend though.

Why don't you think I should get Koi, is the pond too small?

Also, what do I need for plants, do I ned to cover the bottom of the pond with dirt? Also, how do I keep them healthy

Thanks.

[snaggle]

You should not get koi because they get too big for you pond. A small filter like the one I posted dose not need to be on a water fall it can be just spill right in to the pond.

Brad

[Fish Dude]

thanks for the info, again I will try to get a pic this weekend (if I remember)

Again thanks.

[nyb440]

For a small pond, I'd probably go with a box filter attached to the inlet of the pump. There are some of these marketed by Laguna (Hagen). I have a Little Giant box filter on my 150 gallon pond that just has coarse and fine filter pads, and it works quite well. It's a fairly compact design as the pump sits right inside the filter box. However, I don't know if this filter box is still manufactured. I then used the output of the pump to run a mini-waterfall. Pics are here: (same as the ones in another topic in this subforum)

http://members.shaw.ca/nyb/pond.htm

As for fish, 3-4 comets would work well. If you don't overstock, then the fish can usually get enough food outdoors. If you don't feed the fish, that amounts to a lot less algae. I have never fed my pond fish and every year they come in for winter fat and brightly coloured, so I think they get enough food fending for themselves.

You don't need to put dirt at the bottom of your pond. That approach gets messy, and makes the pond hard to clean. Just put the plants in pots and put them at the right depth, i.e., marginal plants on shelves and deeper water plants on the bottom of the pond. Usually, it's a good idea to repot the plants when you take them home, especially ones that come in ridiculously small pots. I just use aquarium gravel for this purpose, and have never had problems with plant growth. You can use a heavy loam/clay soil, just be sure to top with some gravel, or you will have a mess when you go to put the plant in the pond.

[snaggle]

In the pond that I built for my parents about 5 years ago now I had a small box filter that the pump goes right in side, I find that it works great if there in chlorine in the water once I de-chlorinated the water to put the fish in I found that the algae gets to bad in less then a week we have added carbon, ammonia remover and phos-x to the pond, the filter just can't handle the bio load of the 6 fish in a 75g pond my dad feeds his fish every other day.

I will try and post a pic of the filter I have this weekend when I go to my parents.

Brad

[Fish Dude]

I am from Red Deer, do you know any places for those compact box-type filters you are talking about? Also, what are comets and how will fish find food outside? Bugs?

[Slough Shark]

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/goldfish...llery/index.htm

Some examples for you, I would reccomend Ryukins and Shubunkins for your tank. If you do some research on Goldfish, you will learn plenty about their history. They're alot more than feeder fish, my favorite variety is the Common Goldfish for sure :thumbs:

This is the most revered Goldfish of the Tang Dynasty, China:

It is a Yellow Common Goldfish, people outside the royal family of China were actually forbidden from keeping this color of Goldfish, I believe it was because yellow was the royal color of China. Common Goldfish were the only variation in China during the Tang Dynasty, and through centuries of selective breeding, numerous varieties of goldfish have been produced.

Just a quick intro to Goldfish, do some research and you'll surprise yourself!!

Good luck!

Taylor

Edited February 23, 2007 by Slough Shark

[nyb440]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but the more fancy varieties of goldfish, such as ryukins, don't tend to fare that well outdoors. However, shubunkins along with comets (feeder fish) are a great suggestion for a small pond.

I know Wal-Mart used to sell the Little Giant filters, but they may have switched over to selling Hagen products. The Hagen/Laguna box filters work equally well, they just aren't as compact. The plus side to the Hagen filters is that they are modular, so you can add additional filter compartments if the need arises.

In terms of food, you'd be surprised at the fauna that inhabits an outdoor pond, and the rapidity at which said fauna gets there. The fish will normally have lots of critters such as beetles and water sliders, as well as the larvae of various other insects, including mosquitoes, to munch on. I've also seen my fish snacking on the algae that grows on the side of the pond. I usually do feed the fish small amounts when the pond is first set up in the spring, but after a couple of weeks they're on their own.

[Slough Shark]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but the more fancy varieties of goldfish, such as ryukins, don't tend to fare that well outdoors.

Thats not entirely true, my neighbors kept Ryukins and Orandas in their pond.

In terms of food, you'd be surprised at the fauna that inhabits an outdoor pond, and the rapidity at which said fauna gets there. The fish will normally have lots of critters such as beetles and water sliders, as well as the larvae of various other insects, including mosquitoes, to munch on. I've also seen my fish snacking on the algae that grows on the side of the pond. I usually do feed the fish small amounts when the pond is first set up in the spring, but after a couple of weeks they're on their own.

100% agree with this, Mosquito larvae are a huge food source for pond fish.

[nyb440]

"Thats not entirely true, my neighbors kept Ryukins and Orandas in their pond."

Anecdotal evidence is always hard to argue against, but I'm not going to let that stop me.

The truth of the matter is that the fancy varieties of goldfish don't tend to be as hardy as their less deformed counterparts. Just because something can be done, doesn't mean that it should be recommended.

That being said, there are many variables involved in outdoor ponds that can allow for the keeping of different fish. If the fish are only out during the warmer months (late June-Aug), the pond inhabitants don't need to be quite so bullet proof. Paradise fish, and yes, fancy goldfish, can be happy under these circumstances. If your fish are outdoors from late May to October, or all year for the deeper ponds, koi and comets are really the best option in our climate. It's not necessarily the absolute temperature that matters greatly; it's the fact that in the spring and fall the pond temperature can change significantly as day turns to night. This is where pond size also comes into play: larger volumes of water are more stable in temperature (and usually in chemistry). The more delicate species/varieties are more likely to do well in a larger pond. So, all things considered, I would still suggest 3-4 comets/shubunkins as the best piscine option for an 86 gallon pond in Red Deer. However, that is just my opinion. Please don't hold me accountable should your pond suffer a bout of self-defenestration, or experience other deleterious effects after the addition of goldfish.

Edited February 23, 2007 by nyb440

[Slough Shark]

LOL, yup you're right, but I always like to defend what i say before I go ahead and say I'm wrong.

I was wrong

[Fish Dude]

So let me see if I've got this right.

1. You can get compact type box filters at Wall-Mart

2. I should get Comets (a variety of Goldfish)

3. I don't need to feed them

4. I should just get plants and then repot them

5. Fish will take care of mosquitos

Is it a good idea to have a sprinkler in the pond with the fish?

What are some dangers to the fish (if any)

Thanks, Zach :thumbs:

Edited February 24, 2007 by Fish Dude

[nyb440]

Yup, you've got it. The fact that the fish eat mosquito larvae is a real blessing, as it keeps your pond from becoming a mosquito farm.

If you find yourself in Calgary in the spring, Pisces is also a really good source of things pondy.

A sprinkler is an aesthetic choice. Just make sure that the fountain head doesn't splash too much water out of the pond, so that you have to refill frequently. This can be an issue with small ponds. The only other situation where you might not want a fountain is if you have lilies. Lily leaves tend to rot if kept constantly wet.

In terms of the hazards to your fish, I'm going to quote W.T. Innes on this one. "In the greenhouse, outdoor pool, or even the library, misfortune is liable to descend in various guises. Chief among these are the cat, rat, muskrat, snake, heron, kingfisher and small boy." I've lost a few fish due to suicide, but the time when you are most likely to suffer fish losses is shortly after their addition to the pond. The transition from an indoor tank of constant temperature to the outdoors can be hard on them. You can make this easier by waiting until the first of June to move the fish outdoors, and by taking your time to acclimate them to the pond water.

I forgot to ask, is your pond above or below grade?

The one other thing that I think is good to mention is the almost inevitable situation where your pond will turn green shortly after you get it going in the spring. Like an aquarium, a pond has to cycle, and most will experience an algae bloom during this cycling period. If the fish aren't overfed, this period normally only lasts a couple of weeks and then the water will be clear for the rest of the season. I wanted to bring this up because a lot of people panic when the pond water turns green. You can make this situation better by adding floating plants to reduce the amount of light getting into the pond, and by carrying out frequent water changes during this period. Having a small pump handy makes this much easier.

I'm beginning to think that I should put all this in an article of some sort, lol.

I hope all goes well with your pond Zach, it's a fun hobby and a pond really does add a nice feature to a yard.

Edited February 24, 2007 by nyb440