How long in a bag?

[fairdeal]

Once again thanks for the info Neil. It is beyond me how manufacturers can claim the things they do if they know darn well they won't actually do it. I guess they figure nobody will actually sue them because how could you ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their product killed your fish. They must assume that people that buy the product will take their word for it and not bother to check out the chemical compositions and reactions. Once again this just proves why info trading hands on forums like this is so beneficial to all that read and participate.

[corrosionjerry]

Once again thanks for the info Neil. It is beyond me how manufacturers can claim the things they do if they know darn well they won't actually do it. I guess they figure nobody will actually sue them because how could you ever prove beyond a reasonable doubt that their product killed your fish. They must assume that people that buy the product will take their word for it and not bother to check out the chemical compositions and reactions. Once again this just proves why info trading hands on forums like this is so beneficial to all that read and participate.

I agree and thank you for this disscusion!

[RD.]

No problem, glad to help.

Unfortunately I think that some manufacturers bank on the fact that there are very few (if any in some cases) regulatory bodies to keep them in check, so they state whatever they want, until someone comes along and forces them to change their labels. I also suspect that their legal eagles have decided that the wording is ambiguous enough to pass in a court of law, IF they were ever called on it.

As an example, API states on their website that Stress Coat; "Instantly removes chlorine and chloramines, making tap water safe for fish." ...... which in a sense is true, as it does remove chlorine by converting it to harmless chloride, and any chloramine is 'removed' by breaking the chlorine-ammonia bond, the chlorine is then reduced to chloride and the ammonia is eventually utilized by the aquariums biological filtration. Sounds straightforward, but for anyone who lives in an area with chloramine treated tap water, and performs large scale water changes, the bio filters usually won't utilize the ammonia at what I personally feel is an acceptable rate. Even small ammonia spikes, on a regular occurring basis, can have a negative effect on fish, some species much more than others. At higher pH values, such as many of the areas in AB, these mini ammonia spikes can play havoc with a fishes overall health.

But hey, like you stated, it's not like anyone can prove in a court of law that using brand A water conditioner caused their fishes immune system to take a serious hit, which caused it to succumb to a more serious illness, or caused it to die prematurely.

The sad part is that the vast majority of consumers read these types of labels, and never suspect that these companies

are actually purposely misleading them. IMO it's not just misleading, it's walking the very fine line of false advertising.

I have great respect for the CEO of Seachem (the makers of Prime) and the inventor of ClorAm-X (produced by the AquaScience Research Group) and those are the only commercial aquatic water conditioner products that are currently on the market that I would personally endorse. Having said that, if I lived in an area that only used chlorine to treat the tap water, I'd be buying sodium thiosulfate in bulk & making my own water conditioner for a teeny-tiny fraction of what the aquatic companies charge for their watered down versions of the same thing. For anyone that is interested, here's a good read on that subject. (chlorine treated water only)

http://216.168.47.67/CIS-Fishnet/AFM/G29151.htm

[Parachromis1]

thanks for the info Neil.

really really helpful.

i was using stresscoat cause i ran out of prime.

since using that i noticed a few of my hatians die....

i wonder why..

[skinless]

great article on breathable bags by rusty wessel in feb 06 TFH;

pros:

he claims storage for weeks + during collection trips and knows of month long confinement.

smaller packaging with zero oxygen bagged!

calmer fish during transport and less chance of injury (trip down stairs = fish rotate in place)

bags are extremely hardy and reusable. (apparently spine punctures can reseal in some cases !?) and blowout survival may increase.

cons:

bags cannot be packed together ~ tomato carton style transport looks like a good way to divide em.

no floating (drip acclimation is better anyways).

careful where you place the bags. they can absorb chemicals off of surfaces. mmmm like lysol!

airbreather species are hooped!